New dog in town!

[misskris]

Hi everyone!
It's been a while since I last posted, which is a good thing, I guess, because it means that Daisy (my 9month old Border/minpin/terrier cross) and I are doing well, she is responding great to training and she no longer has the "issues" that I previously wrote about because of all the great advice I received on this wonderful forum. Now, we have a NEW problem...

One week ago, my parents adopted a 6-month (that is a guess from the humane society based on her dental exam) terrier / daschund mix, Mari. SHe is a DOLL, very well-behaved, LOVES people, and gets along great with Daisy. EXCEPT for a few slight problems...whicih I would humbly request as much advice as possible on, because my parents are leaving for a trip in 5 days and I will have to watch the two dogs with my husband by ourselves and want to ensure that these issues are resolved or at least under control, before then.

1. DAISY is SO playful. I know they are just playing because there never is any blood, any growling, or any teeth baring, but Daisy will nudge Mari with her nose, she will nip at her skin, she will put her jaw on her neck, etc. She will NOT let up...we have introduced them 3 times, and all 3 times so far, Daisy will keep at it, trying to play, until they are forcefully separated. Mari is just fine relaxing and laying down, but Daisy keeps bothering her, so she has to get up and play with her. We often separate them, but I am wondering if this behavior will ever lessen or if Daisy will ALWAYS be this playful and overbearing when it comes to her and Mari being in the same room? I read some older posts of similar situations, so I will try to bring Daisy's crate with me when I watch both of them and crate them both when they are getting too rough. Any other suggestions? Ultimately, i would like for Daisy to calm down on her own, since MAri knows how to do this already...then, they can play and be clam, play and be calm, etc.

2. Mari is HIGHLY food aggressive ONLY with Daisy. Of course, we feed them separately (since Daisy had problems with food and Mari was a underweight stray living on the streets), however, the problem also manifests when there is the smell of ANY type of food (i.e. we are eating lunch) and the two are in the same room. Mari turns into a completely DIFFERENT dog. She snarls, bears teeth, and becomes rigid. We understand that this is completely natural behavior, as she was forced to "survive" on the streets for quite some time so that's all she knows. Will these incidents cause a rift between them and how do we avoid them? Crate both of them every time there is any type of food around? Will this eventually go away once Mari understands that she doesn't need to fight or guard her food anymore?

Thank you in advance for all the help. I guess I am just worried that they won't learn to settle down and get along and then we can never have them together in the same room, which would be horrible.
Thank you!
Happy Holidays!
k

[SLWeber]

Hi, Kris!

Our 18-month Redbone Coonhound mix, Red, and our new 6-month Chocolate Lab, Harley, are rough players, too. When we first got Harley, it was constant but after about three days it calmed down a bit. Occasionally, they will still chase each other around the house and wrestle, but no one gets hurt, no teeth are bared, and there is no growling. If someone wants a drink during the play, both stop as quickly as someone yelled, "Time out." They quickly learned that when we raised our voices and said, "Settle!" they should come to us, sit, and get a praise reward for stopping their rambunctions behavior. We were also concerned that that Red kept stealing whatever toy Harley was playing with at the time. Red is extremely trainable, so he quickly learned a "no stealing" command. Problem was, when Red was being goodboy and just watching Harley with the toy, Harley started throwing or pushing the toy to Red as if he were saying, "C'mon, you gotta steal it. That's how he game is played." We people just don't understand the rules. No other dogs I have ever had played together. My husband's sister, a trainer, says how they play is normal, though.

Good luck!
Stacey

[jacksdad]

how long will you be dog sitting? this will have some baring on what advice is given.

Some of what you describe in Daisy's play is a bit on the "rude" side, so I would be very vigilant for even hint of trouble and separate the dogs for a break.

At the very least management is going to be key. depending on how long your going to be having Daisy, trying to "train away" in issues might be futile as Daisy isn't your dog and there is no guaranty your parents will continue with what you start.

Again, give us some idea how long you will have Daisy. That info will help with advising a course of action.

[misskris]

hi Stacey and JacksDad!

I'm so sorry for the late replies, but I haven't had access to my computer until today and it's just too difficult to type all this out on my phone...

Ok, so the dog sitting has been going well (aside from me wanting to pull all my hair out from boredom being on lockdown in a house with two very active dogs) haha. They have gotten more used to each other, but there are still re-occurent problems that I want to address, I just don't know how.

Ok, to answer the questions, JacksDad, I will be dog-sitting only until Sunday, however, I know that these two dogs will be spending a LOT of time together for the remainder of both their lives, so I would like to ensure they have a peaceful and happy relationship now and forever. My parents and I are very close, so the dogs will be together forever, pretty much. My Mom is very open to training and trusts me since I do a lot of research and get help on these forums, so I am sure she will carry out whatever I put into place. I just hope it is the right thing I put into place. haha

I'll quickly go over what has been happening in the last two days that I have had both dogs all day:

- I feed them separately, and crate them while I am preparing the food. The only outburst has happened because I had them out while preparing the food and Daisy was interested and got up close by Miso (sorry we changed her name since the first post LOL) and Miso lashed out in aggression and rage. I quickly put my arm in between them, and I realized Miso wasn't actually biting, she was just making lots of noise and showing lots of teeth so as to scare Daisy away. It worked for a little while, but I didn't want to see what happened next so I immediately crated them.

- When they play, Daisy always goes for Miso's neck, but doesn't bite down hard. Miso goes for Daisy's legs, but when she starts to get irritated (Daisy has a size advantage), she gets the aggressive and angry look in her eyes and starts snapping at the air viciously. I separate them immediately when this happens.

- We have two types of toys for each of them...two nylabones, two rope toys and two loofa toys. HOwever, no matter what, Miso will ALWAYS steal the toy Daisy has chosen to chew on. I discourage this behavior by a sharp, "no" but it gets sooooo old always monitoring them when they are chewing on their toys but if I don't, Miso always steals Daisy's toys. Daisy doesn't do anything. She lets it happen and I try to offer her the free toy, and the cycle continues.'

-Sorry, Jacksdad I think i was unclear...so sorry. Daisy is my dog and Miso is the new rescue that my Mom adopted. Daisy gets fed two times a day, usually gets two to three walks, and sleeps in bed with me. Miso gets fed three times a day and doesn't get any walks yet because she only has her first parvo vacci. But, they play pretty hard in the yard, running back and forth, so they are usually pretty tired by 7:30 or 8.

- We have slept on the same bed with both the dogs, and that has been just fine.

- The thing that I am most concerned with is that they will always go about with this play-fighting that escalates into potentially real fighting and that one day they will snap and start to tear each other apart. I am also worried that we will never be able to leave them unattended because of this. Is this normal puppy behavior? They have been together in the same house for the last 4 days and it has improved a great deal, but there are still outbursts that I'm worried will never go away?!?!

*I am a worrywart, I know. I just want to make sure that it is normal and that they will eventually be able to behave decently without warnings and corrections for their behavior.

THANK YOU SO MUCH and I'm so sorry for this incredibly lengthy reply!
k

[Nettle]

I would recommend that they are kept apart when nobody is about to supervise. You have two terrier mixes, both bitches and close in age. This has the potential to become serious between them, and if their playing escalates into a fight, there is no going back. One WILL kill the other. I am speaking from experience.

With close supervision and avoidance of situations that can cause conflict (you have already found out about food and they are now moving over to possessions) insane amounts of exercise both physical and mental, and the most natural food you can manage, you may be able to keep them together for a lifetime without anything going wrong. But the potential is always there, so your parents need to be on board with this also - which they may find difficult as of course we see little dogs as cute and sweet, and it's so easy to forget that they are dogs.

[misskris]

okie dokie. That's what I feared was the truth. I know what you mean about the "cute" thing...it is so easy to think, "oh they are so cute playing like that..." but I am trying to be as proactive as possible but man, it gets TIRING constantly correcting them. I guess, however, in the long run, it's very worth it. Or so I hope.

So, quick question...the people who I accepted Daisy from were actually going to keep her. Her mother is the terrier cross and the Dad was the border collie. SO...do you think that this would have happened with her and her mom if they were kept together too? I'm just curious if dogs remember their offspring always as their offspring and never see them as threats. Or...would it not happen because of the difference in age?!?

Sorry just curious.

Ok, so now I gleaned that I need to have constant supervision on them. Any suggestions on positive behavior training? Like how I might be able to train Miso to stop stealing Daisy's toys?!? Or how I might positively reward Daisy for not biting Miso on the neck?

THANK YOU so much again! I really appreciate it guys!

[Nettle]

Just a little positive training for you

Like how I might be able to train Miso to stop stealing Daisy's toys?!? Or how I might positively reward Daisy for not biting Miso on the neck?

That's what you don't want - you need to focus on what you DO want.

Please don't think I'm being unhelpful - I'm just helping you to refocus your aims and if YOU come up with the answers then you will have made a huge step forward. (and if you don't, we will in a little while).

Her mother is the terrier cross and the Dad was the border collie. SO...do you think that this would have happened with her and her mom if they were kept together too? I'm just curious if dogs remember their offspring always as their offspring and never see them as threats. Or...would it not happen because of the difference in age?!?

That depends on the temperament of each dog. Keeping mother and daughter together is difficult but not impossible - I've done it for quite a few generations. The way I make it work is to choose a daughter as unlike the mother as possible, and I don't breed my bitches until they are 5 or 6, which makes a big difference in age between the two.


And they are working dogs - which means they are focussed on what they do, get a lot of exercise and mental stimulation, natural food, and I watch them like hawks for any sign of antsiness, especially when they come into season, which always changes dynamics.

Interestingly, they choose favoured places very far away from each other when resting. They make their own space. We call it 'getting her own flat (apartment)'.

[misskris]

ok, thanks Nettle! I am trying the strategy of distracting either of the two before they even begin the unwanted behavior...but then there's another problem of the food aggression, so i can't treat one without treating the other...or can i?!?! They are both HIGHLY food motivated...so where to go from here?!
thanks so much. I really appreciate the guidance!
k