cirtnella collar
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fosterdogs
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:25 pm
cirtnella collar
my dog barks at people in the yard, a trainer suggested a cirtnella collar, she said it is humane. what are your thoughts? Should I try it
Re: cirtnella collar
No, it's not humane and it's not effective. It's good that you came here and asked, that shows that you're looking to do the best by your dogs. I'll leave it to the trainers/behaviorists to explain in more detail why this is not something that should ever be used on a dog as well as ways to properly address the barking situation, but in the meantime, I would be looking for a trainer that doesn't use or recommend these types of devices to take the place of true positive training for dogs. (Of course, you didn't say it was your trainer, just a trainer. But either way, their advice is not to be trusted.)
My avatar is Piper, my sweet Pembroke Corgi. b. 5/11/11
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fosterdogs
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:25 pm
Re: cirtnella collar
it was a trainer that I talked to by phone, she wants to see the dog but now I am not going to use her. How can I stop my dog from barking at people passing by?
Re: cirtnella collar
Blocking the view through the fence helps greatly. I did this for a while with my barkey yard dog and while she could hear and smell things outside of the fence, so she would perk up, her barking was immensely reduced. My dog is also sound sensitive, so if a group of children came running down the sidewalk in flip flops and yelling, my dog would bark about that anyway.
My original goal was to put up the vision blocking fabric (black plastic) and then gradually take it down in sections as I desensitized her to people going by. I didn't get much help from the family on this though and eventually gave up. In fact I got almost daily harrassment about the black plastic being on the fence. It may not be the prettiest thing, but it does do the job of blocking the dog's vision of things going by.
Ideally the dog doesn't go out in the yard without you there ready with her favorite motivator/attention getter. For my dog, I go out with treats. I can distract her from most things that go past the house as long as there isn't a dog involved, or a lot of noise. I reward her for coming and standing by me (up by the house rather than down by the sidewalk) when people pass by. I use clicker training for this.
You can train a different response. If your dog can't be in the yard when someone goes by without barking, have her on a lead, and when you see someone coming, run into the house with your dog. You may find after you do this for a while that your dog will see someone passing and take off for the house on her own.
One of the things I tried (that I wouldn't recommend, but I am a cold weather wimp) was to toss treats out of the upstairs window when my dog started barking at something going by. After a few times of this, Sirius would bark a single time and then both dogs would look towards the window wondering where their yummy treats were. In attempting to distract the dog from barking, I had unintentionally trained an alternative response which greatly reduced the barking.
I have heard of others who inadvertantly trained their dogs to bark once and then run to the door to come inside simply by bringing the dog inside when when she barked.
My original goal was to put up the vision blocking fabric (black plastic) and then gradually take it down in sections as I desensitized her to people going by. I didn't get much help from the family on this though and eventually gave up. In fact I got almost daily harrassment about the black plastic being on the fence. It may not be the prettiest thing, but it does do the job of blocking the dog's vision of things going by.
Ideally the dog doesn't go out in the yard without you there ready with her favorite motivator/attention getter. For my dog, I go out with treats. I can distract her from most things that go past the house as long as there isn't a dog involved, or a lot of noise. I reward her for coming and standing by me (up by the house rather than down by the sidewalk) when people pass by. I use clicker training for this.
You can train a different response. If your dog can't be in the yard when someone goes by without barking, have her on a lead, and when you see someone coming, run into the house with your dog. You may find after you do this for a while that your dog will see someone passing and take off for the house on her own.
One of the things I tried (that I wouldn't recommend, but I am a cold weather wimp) was to toss treats out of the upstairs window when my dog started barking at something going by. After a few times of this, Sirius would bark a single time and then both dogs would look towards the window wondering where their yummy treats were. In attempting to distract the dog from barking, I had unintentionally trained an alternative response which greatly reduced the barking.
I have heard of others who inadvertantly trained their dogs to bark once and then run to the door to come inside simply by bringing the dog inside when when she barked.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.
Re: cirtnella collar
Think of the dogs nose as being the equivalent of our human eyes. Our eyes are our primary means for taking in the world, gathering information and such. While dogs actually have pretty good vision, compared to us they are "blind". On the other hand a dogs nose and sense of smell is their primary means of gathering information and taking in the world and compared to dogs we might as well have no nose or sense of smell.
When you squirt something like citronella strait into their nose, they WILL notice and it won't be "harmless". the human equivalent is having a really hot pepper spray squirted into our eyes every time we do something "wrong". Oh sure it won't kill us just like citronella won't kill dogs, BUT it will cause in the best case irritating discomfort and in the worse case PAIN.
We humans don't really appreciate just HOW sensitive the dog's nose is. But here is the best way to put that into perspective that I can think of. Dogs are learning to smell out cancer cells IN our bodies. now, that is a sensitive sniffer.
the other problem with using something like a citronella collar is it ignores the root cause of the barking. a dog's bark is communication and it's in everyone's best interest to for us humans to try and understand why the dog is barking. What if the dog is barking because it is afraid of people coming close? Or what if someone is doing something mean/cruel to your dog while in the yard while you aren't looking and now your dog is taking no chances, all unknown humans must be driven away. Or what if your dog is bored and finds barking at people a form of entertainment. All are these are legitimate possibilities and all can be addressed in ways that do not cause fear, pain or discomfort.
What you need to do is figure out why your dog is barking at people, if your not sure assume fear as the starting place. the reason fear is a safe starting place is it's a worst case cause and the solution to a fearful dog is very similar to what you would do for a dog who's playing and finding it fun to bark and chase people. both cases half the solution is changing the association the dog has with people. in the case of fearful, you change the association from "OH NO a person" to "Ya, a person means I get something special/yummy/fun". Citronella will increase the negative association a fearful dog has with people, not decrease it. If the dog is just having fun, it will create a negative associations.
In order to help you get started, can you give us a little more information about your dog's typical day. example, we get up a 7am, go for a quick bathroom break, come back eat breakfast, 9am go for 1 hour walk, about mid afternoon we do some click training, etc,
What we are looking for is
breed and age of dog
how much exercise your dog gets
any training you do
is the dog left unattended in the yard
that kind of thing. what does an average/typical day look like for your dog.
When you squirt something like citronella strait into their nose, they WILL notice and it won't be "harmless". the human equivalent is having a really hot pepper spray squirted into our eyes every time we do something "wrong". Oh sure it won't kill us just like citronella won't kill dogs, BUT it will cause in the best case irritating discomfort and in the worse case PAIN.
We humans don't really appreciate just HOW sensitive the dog's nose is. But here is the best way to put that into perspective that I can think of. Dogs are learning to smell out cancer cells IN our bodies. now, that is a sensitive sniffer.
the other problem with using something like a citronella collar is it ignores the root cause of the barking. a dog's bark is communication and it's in everyone's best interest to for us humans to try and understand why the dog is barking. What if the dog is barking because it is afraid of people coming close? Or what if someone is doing something mean/cruel to your dog while in the yard while you aren't looking and now your dog is taking no chances, all unknown humans must be driven away. Or what if your dog is bored and finds barking at people a form of entertainment. All are these are legitimate possibilities and all can be addressed in ways that do not cause fear, pain or discomfort.
What you need to do is figure out why your dog is barking at people, if your not sure assume fear as the starting place. the reason fear is a safe starting place is it's a worst case cause and the solution to a fearful dog is very similar to what you would do for a dog who's playing and finding it fun to bark and chase people. both cases half the solution is changing the association the dog has with people. in the case of fearful, you change the association from "OH NO a person" to "Ya, a person means I get something special/yummy/fun". Citronella will increase the negative association a fearful dog has with people, not decrease it. If the dog is just having fun, it will create a negative associations.
In order to help you get started, can you give us a little more information about your dog's typical day. example, we get up a 7am, go for a quick bathroom break, come back eat breakfast, 9am go for 1 hour walk, about mid afternoon we do some click training, etc,
What we are looking for is
breed and age of dog
how much exercise your dog gets
any training you do
is the dog left unattended in the yard
that kind of thing. what does an average/typical day look like for your dog.
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fosterdogs
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:25 pm
Re: cirtnella collar
hi
the dog is a collie mix, she gets a walk once a day for 45 minutes, she is never in the yard alone. I kept her on a leash but she barks when people pass. we go out in the morning at 6 am and then she goes out again at 7:30 am. I am with her during that time. I then go to work and am home at 2pm. we go for a walk at 3pm. when we come home, I let her rest and then I fed her at 5pm. She eats once a day. then we go outside in the yard after she eats and twice more before bed. One at 8 and then again at 10pm. she knows some commands like sit, down. I think she barks because she is scared and if she sees people and barks and then gets sprayed by the collar, she will be more scared. I want her to stop barking at people but want to do a positive approach
the dog is a collie mix, she gets a walk once a day for 45 minutes, she is never in the yard alone. I kept her on a leash but she barks when people pass. we go out in the morning at 6 am and then she goes out again at 7:30 am. I am with her during that time. I then go to work and am home at 2pm. we go for a walk at 3pm. when we come home, I let her rest and then I fed her at 5pm. She eats once a day. then we go outside in the yard after she eats and twice more before bed. One at 8 and then again at 10pm. she knows some commands like sit, down. I think she barks because she is scared and if she sees people and barks and then gets sprayed by the collar, she will be more scared. I want her to stop barking at people but want to do a positive approach
Re: cirtnella collar
spot on, and good on you for making this connection. as jacksdad explains, dogs noses are SO sensitive, and the spray from those collars hangs around LONG after it was sprayed for whatever the dog was doing "wrong" - so the dog essentially has no way to connect the unpleasantness of the collar, to any one thing it is doing, which just causes constant confusion and discomfort.fosterdogs wrote: I think she barks because she is scared and if she sees people and barks and then gets sprayed by the collar, she will be more scared. I want her to stop barking at people but want to do a positive approach
collies are extremely active dogs, and i would hazard a guess that only one 45 minute walk per day probably means she has a bit of extra energy. she would also do well with playing puzzle type training games, engaging their brains is a great way to tire a dog out in addition to the physical exercise they need. there is a thread in the articles section called 'exercise the mind' with lots of these type of games if you want to check it out. others will be back shortly to address the fear aspect of the dogs issues too, good work (again) on not using the collar and seeking a better option
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fosterdogs
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:25 pm
Re: cirtnella collar
but how do I stop the barking? Do I tell her stop or leave it? do I reward her when she sees a person pass by and not bark
Re: cirtnella collar
You try to make it so she never GETS to bark. First by blocking the view, so she has less reason to bark in the first place, and secondly by building a new association. So whereas people passing by right now = bark at them!, instead, you want to get her thinking that people passing by = treats from mom (or dad)! To do that, you do as suggested and treat, treat, treat every time something goes by. It doesn't matter what she's doing, you just treat, treat, treat so she starts getting that new association. The barking will subside because she can't sniff or eat and bark at the same time, and over time (it will take time!) she will begin to look at you when there's a disturbance instead of barking. Keep at it and you will notice the difference.
