Raw Food Diet

Discussion dedicated to promoting the well-being of your dog through diet, exercise and general health tips.

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Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

I kinda thought it was a little bit much once I'd gotten it all in their bowls, but it had all already touched the chicken, so I just said "oh well" and left it. Lu's the only one who ate ALL of it, but he's also our furry hoover, so I wasn't really surprised. Tomorrow's meals will be much smaller.
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***Melissa***
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by ***Melissa*** »

I had so much fun reading all the messages :D

I’m still in the process of switching to raw, but here’s what I’ve tries so far.

I experimented this weekend, and, even though I doubted that they (especially Striker) will eat the pulped veggies, they LOVED it!!! ***yay*** I couldn’t believe my eyes. Striker had 2 veggie ice cubes mixed with about a teaspoon of that grounded meat & bone stuff. Bibi (the baby) had 1 veggie ice cube with about half teaspoon grounded stuff. (the proportion meat/bone varies, but when I opened the packet I could see some fat in there too, so I don’t know if that’ll be very healthy???) They ate EVERYTHING and even after their bowls were empty they continued to lick it. I thought that maybe I didn’t give then enough, but also didn’t want to give them too much, especially the first time. (And they had meaty bones about 5 hours before the veggies) About an hour after the veggies Bibi threw up :( – green!!! (veggies???). She was fine for the rest of the day though, and she had dinner (dog food) with no problems. Is it normal for doggies to have some effects (like Bibi) when you change their diet?

The veggie mix I made was mostly spinach with carrots, celery, a red pepper, apples, broccoli (a little) & a little water. For flavour I used a little fresh parsley, basil & garlic. Oh, and I added a little olive oil as well.

Just another question – do you mix the oval with the veggies or is that supposed to be a separate meal? And do I have to bled the oval as well, or should it be more chunky pieces?

I also think the pig head will be huge fun, LOL, just wasn’t sure if pork was okay to feed them – but I take it as a yes, I can :D

Something I haven’t done yet, is buying & giving the supplements. I’m still lost there, and even with the ‘list’ of all the vits, etc they need, I still don’t know how much, etc. We have “Bob Martin” which is like a supplement (it’s a pill) for doggies. I was wondering if you maybe know the product & if you do is it good – can I give that in the place of all the other supplements?

LOL at Leigha – I still need to do the egg-thingy, have no idea what my babes will do with a whole egg – can’t wait to find out!! Think I'm going to try that tonight. Do I give them a little less food when they have an egg too?

I got this menu from the internet – I’d love to hear your thoughts on it?

Legend for the menu:
(RMB’s: Chicken Necks, Chicken Wings, Whole Chicken carcasses, Turkey Necks, Turkey Wing, Duck, Rabbit, Quall etc. Beef brisket, Beef neck, Pork feet, pork necks
Ground Meat: Beef, Chicken, Turkey, Chicken carcasses, Fish (fresh human grade or canned in water only)
Chopped Meat: Oval)

Monday
AM – RMB’s
PM – Ground meat, veg mix, kelp powder, vitamin C, cod liver oil, salmon oil, scoop of all natural yogurt

Tuesday
AM – RMB’s
PM – Chopped meat, veg mix, kelp powder, vitamin C, salmon oil, vitamin E, scoop of all natural yogurt

Wednesday (light menu day)
AM – Large recreational bone & chicken necks/wings (half of what you normal would give).
PM – nothing or just yogurt

Thursday (Fish Day)
AM – RMB’s
PM – fish, veg mix, kelp powder, vitamin C, salmon oil, vitamin E, scoop of all natural yogurt

Friday
AM – RMB’s
PM – Ground meat, chopped meat, vitamin C, flax seed oil, cod liver oil, salmon oil, vitamin E, scoop of all natural yogurt

Saturday
AM – Large Recreation bone & Chicken necks/wings (just a few)
PM – Ground meat, veg mix, vitamin C, cod liver oil, salmon oil, vitamin E, scoop of all natural yogurt

Sunday
AM – RMB’s
PM – Ground meat, chopped meat, veg mix, Vitamin E & C, evening primrose/borage oil, scoop of all natural yogurt
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
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Nettle
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Nettle »

Fantastic meals on the go there :D

I don't supplement. See how you go without. Sometimes very old dogs need a bit extra, but mostly the diet is fine without supplements.

Throwing up isn't the big deal with dogs that it is for us. Sometimes they'll throw up and then eat it again - just don't look. It's normal, and what they would do if they had killed a big animal - swallow it in lumps to take to a safer place and eat again, or else feed to pups back at the lair.

Check out your turkey and chicken necks - in some countries, turks and/or chooks have antibiotic pellets inserted in their necks, and you don't want your dogs having those if so.

Canned fish in tomato juice is good too.

You are going to be stunned at how healthy your doggies become!
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
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***Melissa***
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Thanx Nettle

It seem so simple when I read about the raw food diet, but when I stand in my kitchen and I have to prepare the food / decide what to give them it's a nightmare, LOL. Oh well, I guess I'll get the hang of it after a couple of days...or weeks....or months.... :D

Still not sure about quantities though. I used to give them commercial dog food & also too much, so I can't even use that for a guideline. I'm afraid that I'll end up not feeding them enough, but I don't want to overfeed them either - as I suspect Striker already is a little overweight. (He's not fat, and he has a waist, but I can't feel his ribs at all, and I've read that you're supposed to feel his ribs but not see them)

And if I use the menu above as a guideline (without supplements & maybe changing some of the 'ingredients' to what's available here, etc), what do I give Bibi (my baby) in the afternoon? Another 'something-meaty-meal' or veggies? Or completely something else? What will be best?

Sorry for all the questions - I have done research, but I'm still not sure :?
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
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Noobs
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Noobs »

I don't give Murphy raw all the time, but whenever I do he goes NUTS. The first time I gave him chicken it was defrosted and I gave it to him in his crate but he held it in his mouth and kept staring at the door like he didn't know what to do. He eventually ate it but since then I've been giving them to him outside. We don't have a back yard so I have to put him on his leash and take him to our front porch so he can eat on the steps. When it's dinner time and he sees me take a baggy out of the freezer he goes to the door and sits there itching to get outside. I go out there with my blackberry and catch up on emails or read a magazine while he eats. :lol:

I've given him either 2 wings or a leg or a thigh for dinner and give him raw veggies once we're back inside but we have a blender stored away somewhere, I think I'll give that a whirl and store them in the ice cube trays. I like your recipe there, Melissa! I already give him raw egg once or twice a week but never with the shell before. Yesterday I cracked an egg over his kibble and he left very little of the shell by the time he was done. A lot of people compliment his coat and when I tell them I give him raw egg most people are surprised. :)

Question about the canned fish - how much in a meal? Our cans are in 6oz size, is that okay or should I break it up into 2 meals?

In an ideal world I would phase out kibble altogether (although he's getting Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Diet per our vet to control his skin rashes), but I'm still working on L to agree to buy raw more often. She's the one responsible for working out our budget every payday so she's concerned about the cost.

I may have glossed over this info but can't seem to find it... is any offal supposed to be raw as well or should it be cooked?
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Nettle
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Nettle »

Offal is fine raw.

I hate the smell of fish (though I like the taste :roll: ) so when I open a can of fish, they get the lot, and then I can get rid of the can and the smell yuk :lol: so quantities - split a can between them and that's that meal.

You will judge quantities better by watching your dogs' figures - too thin and you give more, too fat and you give less, until they are just right again.

It's that flexible.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

The night we gave ours the raw eggs holy cow the gas Lu got. I woke up in the night from the smell of it, searching the bedroom because I was sure he had diarrhea. His gas lasted that night and most of the next day... he only seemed to play his wind instrument when he was sitting in my lap though. So far as I can tell we haven't had any gaseous excretions with the chicken wings (thank god).
maximoo
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by maximoo »

Next time give him 1/2 an egg and at a different time.
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***Melissa***
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Thanx for all the replies (again), I really appreciate it :)

Yep, my doggies now looooove the veggies (I still can’t believe it). Oh, Noobs, I’m glad you like the ‘recipe’, but I really can’t take credit for it – Emmabeth & a lot of other people on the forum helped me & told me what ingredients to use & I found some ‘recipes’ on the internet as well :D

So I gave both of them a raw egg last night – haaahaaahaaaa, it was soooo funny. :lol: Striker took his, swapped it with Bibi’s and then bit it only a little (as if he knew what was going to happen) & start to lick where the egg came out. He ate everything & about half of the shell. Bibi just looked at her’s at first :? (the one Striker decided she should have) & eventually decided it must be a ball – she’d bark at it, push it around with her nose, jump beside it, etc. After a while I cracked it for her a little – she also loved it, ate the whole egg, but not really the shell though. It was very funny & they really enjoyed it!!

I gave the egg & a little later their normal meals – was I supposed to give less food because I gave the eggs?

I’m going to use the menu (as above) as guidance, but I will have to change some of the ingredients to things that are more affordable here. (Chicken is very expensive). With regard to quantities – I think for the raw meaty bone I’ll give them something about the same size as a chicken wing each (will that be enough????) & the veggie/oval part about 2 ice cubes veggies & 1 tablespoon oval (or whatever I mix it with - about a tablesoon) each. Will that be too much for Bibi (2 month old Dachshund / Jack Russel mix) & too little for Striker (Dachshund over a year old)?

I'm starting to feel that I’m making progress, although it's only baby steps :D
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
Leigha
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Leigha »

So we've been feeding raw for 3 days (something like that?) and all 3 of the dogs absolutely L-O-V-E it. Have a question though--is it possible that feeding raw can change a dog's behavior? We have had ZERO snarkiness from Bru since we've started (even in circumstances that would have called for a MAJOR meltdown), which has been wonderful. I'm fairly certain that it's too soon to see any results from any kind of changes we make, but Jason asked me to ask if changing the food could cause Bruiser to be a sweet(er) angel.
emmabeth
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by emmabeth »

It could - imagine if the food he was on before gave him acid or a mild belly ache... bet that would make him grumpy. Or maybe he just feels more content and satisfied having more appropriate food? (It takes more work to eat, its provides variety of flavour and texture) - certainly WE feel more satisfied with a proper meal than say, with a meal replacement 'shake', even if that shake contains a balanced diet in every sip!

It could be that some ingredient or additive or preservative in his previous food gave him a headache - sugars and grains give me a horrendous headache and I can tell you... makes me pretty snarky too!

You might well never know and maybe it isnt down to the food - but I know i feel happier and more relaxed yet have more energy (and no headaches, acid or tummy aches) if i eat a diet that is low in sugars and carbs and higher in protein and fibres.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
pmcrae71
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Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by pmcrae71 »

WOW! There's a lot of information here on this diet. hubby and I are starting our own raw, semi- raw diet (i will cook the meat) this week. Sounds as if I can make just a little more and feed the boys. I'm sure that will fix my picky eaters. The egg thing is a funny read, I can just picture the doggies playing with the eggs, I think I'll try my boys on one later. I'll get pictures and try to figure out how to post them. This ought to be fun!

On feeding them chicken wings, do you take the meat off the bones? I have heard that poltry bones aren't good for dogs to chew or eat as they slinter and cause harm to them, like choking or becoming lodged in the soft tissue of their mouths and throat. Is this correct?

Also, what is 'offal'? I have not heard of that here in the U.S..
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Noobs
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by Noobs »

Offal are organs (heart, liver) - I'm sure the experts will give you more info but that's the short answer.

Chicken bones - you're correct, it's not ok when cooked but give the whole chicken wing to raw with the bone and it'll be fine. I give Murphy the chicken wings raw and frozen and he LOOOOVES it. If you want to try feeding a chicken wing maybe defrost it first by leaving it out, not in the microwave. I gave Murphy chicken wings defrosted at first but now he eats them (wings, legs, or thighs) frozen. I haven't ventured far off that yet but when I find a good butcher nearby so it's cheaper than the grocery store, I'll give other meats a try.

Good luck. I thought that a raw diet might be good for you to try after reading all your issues in your picky eater thread. :)
pmcrae71
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by pmcrae71 »

i had thought about it many times, but am concerned about food poisoning, like e-coli and what not. has anyone else had any issues with this? I know that k-9's eat raw meat in the 'wild', but that is fresh, uncured, untouched meat. Not processed by humans.

On the veggies and fruits, what is NOT suggested to give them? Anything I should watch out for? Other than the seeds, like the apple core.
emmabeth
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Re: Raw Food Diet

Post by emmabeth »

As long as you are as hygienic around the dog food as you would be preparing your own food (washing stuff, washing hands), the risk to humans, I cant see is any greater than preparing your own food before cooking it.

For dogs they can get e-coli, and salmonella, in fact my friends dog has a urine infection that has proved to be... e coli (funnily enough.... hes fed on complete dry biscuits!) - dogs rarely get ILL from these things unless they are already not well. Dogs have strong stomach acid and a short digestive tract, designed to quickly process meat from fresh.. through 'a bit high' to ripe and full of maggots!

We are far more susceptible to food poisoning type infections because we have got a much much longer digestive tract, food takes aaaaaaaages to get through our system and of course the longer it takes.... the longer anything nasty is in there, the higher the risk of us feeling ill.

If you source your meat wisely, keep things clean and wash your hands frequently the risks really are not something that would put me off doing it, unless you have a compromised immune system and are very ill or live with someone who is (but in that case, dogs would likely be bringing in bacteria that would make you ill anyway).

Dogs can pick up and carry and not be ill from, a number of things that can make us ill, certainly dogs have gotten e coli and salmonella without being raw fed and I definately know dogs got salmonella from dry dog food.

Veggies and fruits - avoid onions and the onion family (though if you have some left overs and there was a little onion or leek in there, thatd be ok just not large quantities of!). Garlic, despite being from the onion family IS ok in small amounts (very beneficial for lots of things) but again, not in huge quantities.

Some people say avocado is a problem though I believe the skin and stone to be the issue not the flesh itself - anyone else know more about that?

Tomatoes should be avoided for very arthritic animals, but otherwise they are fine.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
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