diet plan for VSD puppy

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praline
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:23 am
Location: new orleans

diet plan for VSD puppy

Post by praline »

A little background ... a golden retriever puppy rescue sort of found its way to us. I knew going in the pup has VSD and this might not be the "smartest" rescue I have ever done but nobody else wanted this extremely sweet and extremely smart and well behaved puppy due to his medical. He was homeless with no hope of finding a family who wanted him =(
His temperment is one of the best I have ever seen in a puppy. He had an echocardiogram and this was the result of it:

Echocardiogram revealed a left-to-right ventricular septal defect (VSD, velocity 3.2 m/s, which may have been underestimated due to the angle of the probe). Outflow tract velocities were normal. No evidence of mitral or tricuspid regurgitation was noted. The left atrium to aorta ratio was normal. No evidence of left or right-sided heart enlargement at this time.

I am NOT a vet and that is basically written in chinese to me HA-HA but some of you experts might know better what those results mean in laymens terms.
Now I was told surgery wasn't needed at this time and to do another u/s in a year. There is also a chance the VSD can repair itself.... seriously this is ONE GREAT DOG or I would have NEVER jumped in with both feet with this type of medical problem.


The reason I am on the diet forum is to find the best diet plan for a VSD puppy to give him the best chance that I can. We are trying to build muscle tone and build his lungs up with exercise and strenght training ... nothing too over the top but our thought is the stronger his heart, muscles and lungs are the better chance he has. My husband even sings the "Rocky theme" to him to get our pup motivated to work out HA HA
Bentley GOES NUTS whenever daddy starts singing it! HA HA

Anyone have any experience with VSD and diet plans? currently he is on Pro plan select's puppy food ... which is a far cry to what he was on when we got him
:roll: he was on Old roy adult dry food even though he was an 8 week old puppy with health problems :cry:

As I could not give him old roy no matter if that was what he was used to, I had to make a fast change with what our local pet store had on hand.
I am not stuck on any particular brand and am open to suggestions. I really want to give him the best chance and in my way of thinking that would be the best diet for his particular health problem.

If you have links, experience with this type of health issue or know what would be the best diet plan for him please give me any and all of your suggestions. Our vet said Science Diet is the best hands down for him... (big eye roll) ... I don't like corn products and as he HAD dry flaky skin I wanted to stay away from corn. A couple of baths in dermcare oatmeal bath and conditioner and his flakes are gone so guessing he just needed more tender loving care rather than had a food allergy but still want to be super careful!
ckranz
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Location: San Diego CA

Post by ckranz »

Did your vet recommend any specific formula of science diet (d/d, c/d,) The reason I am sking is because you should be able to ask him why he is recommending those formulas.

You should be able to get a full guaranteed analysis online. Look at things like the protein level, phosophorus or whatever your vet said was the reason.

Next Look at some of the more premium level foods like Natural Balance, Wellness, Innonova, Solid Gold and find a formula that has roughly the same analysis, but better quality ingredients.

If the diet actually has some sort of medicine in it, ask for the medicine separate from the food and wither mix in or give at meal time.


If he recommends a non-specific formula then selection becomes much wider.

Just find a food that fits your budget and has the highest quality ingredients you can get. If you can afford science diet, take a look at Wellness and Natural Balance. For roughly the same price you get a much higher quality product.
Newfmom
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Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:50 pm
Location: Wyoming, USA

Post by Newfmom »

I am sorry about your puppy's health - but you are an angel for rescuing him! So many animals would not be so lucky.

I do not have any experience with this condition, but I have done tons of research on dog food. I had a 19 month old newf that had to be euthanized due to total kidney failure and although her condition was genetic, I still felt that maybe there was something I could've done differently that might have given her a longer life. One of the things I started looking at was dog food. That was more than 3 years ago, and I am still learning!

I am sorry to tell you this, but the Pro Plan isn't all that much better than Ol'Roy. While the Pro Plan at least has an actual species specific meat protein as the 1st and 4th ingredients, considering that the first ingredient (Turkey) is in its wet weight, it would move to about 4th or 5th on the list after processing. Brewer's Rice, which is 2nd on the ingredient list, is nothing more than the stuff that is swept up off the floor after other processing methods. Corn gluten meal is just filler (and gluten is what hid the melamine that was responsible for so many pet deaths last year). So with only 2 meat protein sources, and 3 grains in the first 5 ingredients, your dog is getting more filler than meat.

I believe that the quality of food your dog gets is extremely important. While I don't want to tell you what you should or should not feed, I would suggest that you research the most common ingredients in dog food to see what you absolutely do not want to feed, and those that you do want in your food. Then base your food choice accordingly. Personally, I do not feed any foods that have more than 3 grains in the first 5 ingredients, no glutens of any kind, no corn in any form, no meat that is not species specific or meat products like "animal fat" or "animal digest", no by-products, no tomato pumace or beet pulp (stool hardners) and preferably no preservatives.

If you would like, I can provide websites that will teach you what the ingredients are.

I hope that helps! :)
Newfmom
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Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:50 pm
Location: Wyoming, USA

Post by Newfmom »

Oops - why did it double post my reply? :oops:

*Mod Edit - we have a little glitch at the moment and sometimes that happens, dont worry, I come around every night and zap all the extra posts to tidy things up*
praline
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:23 am
Location: new orleans

Post by praline »

My vet told me the regular science diet would be great for him, no perscription diet plan was mentioned.
As she sells science diet I took what she said with a grain of salt :?

I have bought the Wellness brand puppy treats. I liked how they tore up into teeny tiny pieces... I can get 10-15 rewards out of 1 treat! HA HA

I love rewarding my pup lots and lots during the day but don't want him to put on extra weight. I can take 2-3 treats and break them up to 30-40 rewards! It takes some talent but it can be done :wink:

I never looked into their brand of food before. I think I am off to research their dog food as our local pet store carries it and I won't have to pay for shipping.
ckranz
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:18 pm
Location: San Diego CA

Post by ckranz »

As dry food has a good shelf life ordering in bulk online can also help you avoid shipping costs. Order over $150 at some online vendors and shipping is free.

Online retailers also tend to have lower prices as well.
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Mattie
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Post by Mattie »

Poor little pup, I am sure he will teach you a lot in the future, it is the difficult ones that do.

I can dowse for the foods that are good for him but need the names and ingredients that are in the food. I don't think it matters whether it is dry or wet food as long as it is good quality.

If you would like me to dowse for his food, you can email me the details of the food etc, and also a photo of him will help. If you want me to do this, I will pm you my email address.

Things to look for in dog food is the more additives the worse the food is, good food doesn't have additives or E numbers in. I have an old dog with heart problems, grade 4 mumour, mitral valve leaking and left ventrical is enlarged so understand your concerns. Joe could go in the next 5 minutes or he could live for quite a few years, he is 12 now and also has brain damage.

I took on a 20 week pup and looking back she was very undersized when she came, I dowsed for her and found that good quality adult food was best. Looking back it was the best thing I did, I didn't know at that time she was undersized, the Dog Warden and vet thought she was a Whippet cross. Because I didn't give her puppy food which is to help puppies grow, she grew a lot slower and we think has reached her potential full height. She isn't a part bred Whippet, she is part bred Greyhound, quite a big difference in height. Puppy food would have been to rich for her and would have cause problems.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
praline
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:23 am
Location: new orleans

Post by praline »

I hope I don't sounds dumb but what is dowse his food mean?
I will pm you my email so I can send you a picture of this darling little angel who I am head over heels in love with!!!

currently he is on Pro plan select (their all natural brand) as it was fast to get (he has only been with me a week) and I needed a decent food ASAP.

I did some more reading and it seems I want foods with Taurine and L-canitine for his heart. Taurine is best served RAW and can be found in beef hearts.

I am going to hit a couple of butchers to see if I can find someone who sells beef hearts ... thinking it will be a bit harder to find than hamburger HA HA

Also adding salmon oil to his diet will be healthier for his heart. I thought flaxseed oil and salmon oil worked the same but apparently dogs have a harder time absorbing flaxseed oil.

NOTE I am not a vet and I am not a nutritional expert and am sailing through unchartered waters FOR ME HA HA I am just your normal everyday stay at home mom who has fallen in love with a puppy and wants to give him the best chance due to his health problems.

He also needs to be on a higher protein diet than the normal healthy dog with less carbs. I was looking into the Wellness CORE brand as it is grain free and mostly protein. It also says he shouldn't eat it until he is a year old on the site. I am not sure why this is and need to figure out more. I am thinking (guessing/ hypothesis whatever you want to call it) that the normal healthy puppy shouldn't be on it due to the higher protein and too fast growth rate but in his particular case he might be better off with the higher protein and less carbs. Items such as rice lower the taurine.

I like what I read about Wellness and it seems to be a really good brand of dog food. I am just not sure if the large breed puppy, the regular puppy or this core would be better for his particular health concerns.
ckranz
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:18 pm
Location: San Diego CA

Post by ckranz »

The easiest place to find bef hearts is at ethnic markets.

Wellness though ensures that all blends of their foods have a good amount of taurine. While I am an advocate of a grain free diet, one thing to note is that ALL grain free diets tend to also be high in phosphorus and calcium which can create problems for dog and cats with specific medical problems.

Its also a good idea to use a good puppy formula like wellness puppy until 1 year of age before switching to a grain free diet. It give time for the growth plate to close properly
praline
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:23 am
Location: new orleans

Post by praline »

This morning I went PEOPLE food shopping at the local grocer... and my grocer carries beef hearts! So about a mile from my home I have a fresh (well frozen) supply of hearts! OK never bought an animal organ in my life but here I was happy as a clam doing so!

Brought it home, cut off a small slab (maybe 3 cubes) and browned it over the stove. I know i know raw tourine and all that but didn't want to start my pup off on raw and upset his tummy as he has never had a chunk of meat in his life. Remember I have only had him a week now.

I am all smiles, put the 3 little cubes in his bowl and he is all wiggles and smiles himself. I put his bowl down on the ground, he sticks his head in the bowl, gives a big old whiff and WALKS OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This from the pup who has no problem stealing pinecones, rocks, mud clots, sticks.... you name it and I have had to go fetch it out of his mouth this week but he won't eat a piece of beef heart to save his life!!!!!!!

I am going to keep offering it to him, only a few small pieces a day and maybe eventually he will eat it.

I will say my 12 year old corgi knew what to do with the heart Bentley wouldn't eat and did so VERY quickly :wink:
dobiemuse
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:14 pm
Location: CO, USA

Post by dobiemuse »

Best food is a homemade diet. You can get several outlined in Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats. A nutritional vet I have met recommends this book (He also has a handout about nutrition I can figure out how to send to you if you wish, just let me know). He also recommends for those who do not want to do a full homemade diet to mix for optimal health.

As for the raw meat... some dogs take to it right away, some don't. Sometimes, you have to cook it a bit to make it palatable. Then cook it less and less until it is raw. I had a pup that I had to do that to, I also had one that preferred the raw to cooked. That was odd since she was so picky when I brought her home.

Do talk to your vet, but I'm actually not too fond of puppy food for large pups. I usually have them on an adult food as soon as I can (of course, depending on the quality and type of dog food). I will mix with what I feel he needs into his daily food.

Sounds like you are a really good person doing their best for the new pup. He is a very lucky pup!
praline
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:23 am
Location: new orleans

Post by praline »

I know Bentley wasn't the "smartest" thing I have ever done but my heart and gut tell me if we can get him past his health issues he will be one of those great ones!
He already heels on a leash, sits without giving a voice command only hand signals, watches my every move waiting for me to do something HA HA
he fetches, sits and drops the ball at my feet with no pulling or tugging... he does this without me having to teach him anything. In the week he has been with me, he has not gone to the bathroom in the house once. He is happy and so loving and sweet and extremely eager to please me. As you can tell, my heart has been taken quickly (wink)

I love watching the show and have always had dogs. I don't do everything Victoria shows but with basic manners training from the start my 3 dogs are well behaved and well loved. I may not know everything, and I might not know the exact proper training techniques or the best thing for him to eat with his health problems but I am learning and learning quick! I know how to love cuddle, snuggle and play with my dogs so thats a huge bonus =)

When we got him he had 2 ear infections, he WAS covered head to toe in fleas so bad his skin was moving... he had hook worms and a secondary bacterial infection from scratching the flea bites. He was skin and bones =(
With all of this AND his VSD he is thriving! He is a real fighter.
His skin has cleared up even though he is still on oral antibiodics and his ears look good but has a few more days of drops. He is putting on weight but I am trying to be very careful not to overfeed him even though he looked like skin and bones!!!

He had an echocardiogram and I was told surgery wasn't needed at this time. I just want to make sure his heart gets everything it can to help him grow!

Thanks everyone for helping me find heart healthy food. I don't know if it will HELP VSD but I can't see it hurting it either so its worth trying.

Now I just have to get my dog to EAT the heart HA HA
I am going to hit the pet store this afternoon and buy a bag of Wellness and start extremely slowly doing the transition over to it.
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