Losing top coat

[Erica]

I hadn't heard that spot-on can be ineffective on longer coats! I may ask our vets about that next time we go in, if Delta's spot-on doesn't work. Though we had some fleas earlier, we treated the dogs and the kitty and fingers crossed, Delta is itching less...

Yay for a poo! Hope little Laufey continues to recover

[delladooo]

I don't know if it applies in every case or more so for Laufey because he hates it so won't keep still but they said tht it's likely most of it ends up on his fur and not his skin making it useless. When he was under they shaved an extra patch on the back of his neck just for this but obviously that's not something I would do again (poor kid looks a mess!!) and I found it just made the liquid run down his neck causing a mess everywhere anyway. I took MiMi to the vets and made them put her's on with the double coat and making sure it is on. She was very good but I've a feeling that's because she doesn't like the vets much and wouldn't cooperate if we did it.

After an infestation in summer we treated Laufey and the cats and that worked nicely but I think that's partly what made Laufey hate it so much. Either that or when the vets prescribed it biweekly.
I'm so glad about the poop, I was starting to worry slightly as his last one had been Tuesday morning but I think we're okay now

Good luck with a non-itchy Delta

[Theo400]

Hi Delladooo

I don't know about delta but Theo has frontline and he has never had fleas once?

[delladooo]

I was under the impression that frontline wasn't as effective any more as the fleas had become resistant to the insecticide. I could be wrong but our vet wouldn't prescribe frontline and said to go with stronghold or advocate. Either way, I will be moving away from spot on treatments as soon as I can... Exactly when will be decided by how my vet reacts to my saying I won't use spot ons again.

As well as Laufey's razor burn from the clippers, it seems that the area they shaved and then put advocate on has a sort of yellow scab on it which also discourages me from spot ons as his itching has become partly concentrated in that area. I just can't wait to get to the bottom of this

[delladooo]

I took Laufey back to the vets today because the spot on his neck where he had his flea treatment is really really itchy (like he can't walk down the road without trying to itch at the same time) and it's awful to see. The young vet says it's razor burn from where they shaved him and it's got infected. She's given us a topical wash thing to put on it and some antibiotics. I thought it was a reaction to the flea treatment and I'm not 100% convinced it's not as he has razor burn elsewhere and that's not gone the same. Possibly the razor burn + the flea treatment hasn't gone well.

They've also had some of the test results back and have confirmed it's not mites / ringworm / other parasites of the sort so we're waiting on results of the allergy tests. He's having his stitches out on Saturday... That's going to be fun

[Erica]

Yep, we've had dogs and cats with small amounts of fleas and ticks despite being treated with Frontline. Sometimes combining a new dose with full-on warfare (vacuum/wash bedding/etc) gets rid of them, but I may switch away from frontline if we have another issue with fleas.

I hope Laufey heals up soon and that you get to the bottom of the itching!

[delladooo]

Yep, we've had dogs and cats with small amounts of fleas and ticks despite being treated with Frontline. Sometimes combining a new dose with full-on warfare (vacuum/wash bedding/etc) gets rid of them, but I may switch away from frontline if we have another issue with fleas.

I hope Laufey heals up soon and that you get to the bottom of the itching!

Yeah, we abandoned frontline after one of our previous cats past at 19. She had been the only one we used it religiously on because she was allergic but our other cat and our late dog didn't seem to catch fleas. Now the vets recommend new products and one of our current cats seems to attract fleas like no tomorrow. We have a house spray from the vets too but the problem had cleared up before we used it so we're saving it for if we have another outbreak this spring.

At this point I just can't wait for the test results but I feel really guilty hoping they do say he's allergic to something because otherwise I have no idea what it could be, except the fleas the vets think it is but without a sensitivity to them I can't see how MiMi has lost soooo much fur

[delladooo]

In the interest of keeping a complete record in case reference is needed, this is a picture of MiMi now. Obviously she's not yet received any treatment and only been given a stronghold spot on but she's still itchy and getting worse.



The amount of fur just falling off her is scary. She doesn't seem to be pulling it out and when combing her it doesn't get pulled out of her skin but just comes away from her in huge chunks

[delladooo]

The vets rang again today with the last of the results and they have told us nothing essentially. It's not a parasite such as mange or ringworm and it's not a flea allergy. The tests they took said there was no problems so we still have no idea what's wrong. I was under the impression we had done allergy testing but the vet on the phone said there is still the possibility of it being an allergy - I'm currently confused on this bit and we have an appointment for Wednesday so I'll get clarification then. Laufey's on his second course of antibiotics thanks to his razor burn infected spot on site thing - I'm giving yumpro probiotics to help. Meanwhile, MiMi had the same spot on and has lost yet more fur. I can't quantify if they're less itchy (I think mum would say they are) because they seem to have less frantic itching but do still itch quite often. We're considering that some of MiMi's coat loss could be down to a coat blow (new experience for me and seems much more extreme than I thought it would be) but the 'pattern' with which she's lost it and the excessive itching are still on concern. The spot on is being considered as a cause of the issue (bring that up with the vet too) but either way I do hope to get them off the spot on


another pic of MiMi's side taken this evening


Also, Laufey's belly now that it's healing

[JudyN]

It must be so frustrating for you - hope you find an answer soon

[delladooo]

It must be so frustrating for you - hope you find an answer soon

Thanks Judy, I just really feel like this is defeating us because there is no definite answers. A lady I was talking to suggested a hair analysis test but I've heard mixed reports on if they're any use. Plus, I thought the whole point of the tests at the vets was to determine allergies so I have no idea what we achieved there apart from to upset Laufey. I'm currently reserving judgement until we see the vet on Wednesday but so far I have to say, I'm not impressed with them at all. The same lady as the hair analysis suggested the coat blow too and (whilst I realise they're not groomers) they didn't mention that at all and I have no idea what these tests were for. It also annoyed me that they did the tests but were still adamant it was fleas and now the tests have come back saying he's not got a flea allergy and there is no way hi itching could be caused by the one flea they found; he wasn't as itchy when we had a known flea infestation. I'm also rather begrudge to admit that she's noticeably less itchy in the last few days so that could be due to the flea treatment so she might have a flea sensitivity even though her hair loss is worse but Laufey's intense flea attack in October made no difference to him (which they seem to be attributing to not getting all of the spot on onto him because of his fur and because he hates it) but again, I'm not convinced on that front because even if he got half the dose, it was being applied twice as frequently which by my reckoning balances out We'll have to see.


Also, I apologise as I get the feeling I'm repeating myself quite a bit at the minute on this issue but it's just so infuriating that there are no answers even after tests

[Nettle]

The tests have told you what it isn't, so not as infuriating as you think

Have you spoken to the breeder? Would be sensible.

Also I too am not yet satisfied that there isn't a flea component to this. You said earlier you have not flea-combed your cats. Most of the fleas found on dogs are cat fleas, and most of the fleas lurking in households are cat fleas. That would tie in with less scratching after flea treatment.

Often there is more than one cause for one effect. So there might be a bit of coat-blow, a bit of changing puppy coat for adult coat, a bit of flea-ness, a bit of contact-itch, so many variables.

Think of it as unravelling a mystery rather than being a nuisance! Then it does not stress you so.

[delladooo]

The tests have told you what it isn't, so not as infuriating as you think

Have you spoken to the breeder? Would be sensible.

Also I too am not yet satisfied that there isn't a flea component to this. You said earlier you have not flea-combed your cats. Most of the fleas found on dogs are cat fleas, and most of the fleas lurking in households are cat fleas. That would tie in with less scratching after flea treatment.

Often there is more than one cause for one effect. So there might be a bit of coat-blow, a bit of changing puppy coat for adult coat, a bit of flea-ness, a bit of contact-itch, so many variables.

Think of it as unravelling a mystery rather than being a nuisance! Then it does not stress you so.

That's true, I am glad in many ways that it's not an allergy and he doesn't have an serious issues. I've not spoken to the breeder no; MiMi was a bit of an accident and then the only puppy in her litter. The breeder and her daughter were rather ill when we went to see them and as such they were also looking to rehome their other pekes (they had three) due to their frequent hospitalisations. I'm quite sure at least MiMi's mum is no longer with the breeder, I'm not sure about her aunt and her father is currently advertised.

I can see how there could very easily be a flea component to this and won't rule it out completely. We've not combed the cats; that wouldn't end well for anyone and they're not itching. We have flea treated them (at the same time as Laufey and MiMi's latest treatment) and with the cold weather they're spending much more time inside asleep and we've still not got any flea dirt off them so are pretty confident that whilst there could be the odd flea we don't have a "flea problem".

I should be much better at looking at these things objectively as a scientist myself but it's much harder when it's your pets... This is obviously why doctors aren't allowed to treat their relatives and close friends

[JudyN]

I think allergy testing in humans is done by exposing them to lots of different common allergens and seeing what they react to. I don't know about dogs, but if it's similar, it could be that they've ruled out certain allergies, but that there could be something obscure they're allergic to.

Though it would be odd if they were both allergic to something obscure....

I would be asking the breeder if any of her pekes had had any itchiness/fur loss issues and if they were diagnosed.

[delladooo]

Yeah, I've not had to be subject to allergy tests but my mum has and they were awful. I'm not sure how it's done in dogs because they took blood and skin biopsies to to do "the thing" with. I did think maybe they had an obscure allergy but the chances of it been the same obscure thing seems pretty remote and the chances of them being allergic to separate remote things seem just as slim.

I'm thinking I will message the breeder and ask but I suspect she was more of a "I keep pekes and my boy happened to get my girl and puppies" than a dedicated breeder. (Certainly on my own I would likely have not got a puppy from her and would have found an alternative breeder but it wasn't really my decision to make). I'll try and compose a message to send later and see what she says. One of the immediate differences would be that she kept hers short which could possibly make a difference.