And those are just the visible differences, then you also have the health benefits of not pumping your dog full of crap..Fresh meat
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Re: Fresh meat
It seems very complicated at first but honestly once you get your head around it it's just as easy as kibble; and the benefits are huge- no stinky farts, bad breath, smelly or runny poos to pick up, no 'dog' smell (P hardly even smells when he's wet now), beautiful shiny coat, calmer behaviour (many commercial foods make dogs a bit hyper, like a child on a sugar-high..). I'm sure some of those will appeal to your mum too And those are just the visible differences, then you also have the health benefits of not pumping your dog full of crap..
And those are just the visible differences, then you also have the health benefits of not pumping your dog full of crap..
Re: Fresh meat
See you say that but that's the bit I have trouble believing, especially as I don't particularly relish the idea of repeating the liver experience any time soon.Sanna wrote:It seems very complicated at first but honestly once you get your head around it it's just as easy as kibble
I think the last one sounds very appealing (although in Laufey I think it's more personality than foodno stinky farts, bad breath, smelly or runny poos to pick up, no 'dog' smell, beautiful shiny coat, calmer behaviour
) the first three aren't much of a problem currently, the others are things I'd definitely like although not convinced I could convince her with them. For now I think I might possibly try not mentioning it but still speaking to a butcher and seeing what could be done. I hate when we get into any kind of disagreement because I can't win and she's never wrongRe: Fresh meat
it's true, honestly - I put off going raw for ages because I thought it would be difficult, but it's easy now. Bit of a guesstimate, but a daily menu for Laufey could look something like:delladooo wrote:See you say that but that's the bit I have trouble believing, especially as I don't particularly relish the idea of repeating the liver experience any time soon.
1 chicken wing
90g mince
15g offal
If the liver is a problem and you went down the dogfood company route, then you'd just need to buy a couple of blocks of mince with liver and/or heart mixed in a week. It could be chicken & liver one week, beef & heart the next. A couple of blocks of mince and 7 chicken wings would take up very little room. If you find a friendly butcher, you could ask for 630g of mince (chicken, lamb, whatever) and 60g liver, but ask if he could chop the liver and mix it in. Then at home you can just divide it into 7 small pots. Hearts I don't think are so icky (I hope not, because I've just ordered three to chop into chunks and freeze
). And you can chuck in the occasional pilchard.Don't take my figures as gospel - the chicken wings might make the bone content a bit high, depending on whether the mince has bone in, but that's easily remedied by just giving them every 2 days.
Sometimes butchers will have to discard mince when changing from one sort of meat to another, as some will be a mixture. That could be ideal for you as it would have two protein sources, and do the butcher a favour too!
I hope your mum will at least let you give it a go - when you've worked out what supplier will be best for you, we can knock around ideas for the best menu to start with, as she's not going to be pleased if Laufey's digestion goes downhill to start with!
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
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Sweetie's Human
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Re: Fresh meat
Judy's got some great ideas there.
The way I do it, I only think about her food once every six weeks when I do a batch. Beyond that I just grab a bag out of the freezer each night, which is about as much effort as measuring a scoop of kibble
With no freezer space, that may be once a week for you, but seriously, it will be about half an hour out of your weekend. Get it all bagged up and ready to go so that if you're ever not home at feeding time, you're only relying on a family member to open a bag into his bowl.
And Judy - heart has about the same ick factor as cutting up a steak - no big deal. Nowhere near the level of liver or kidney so if you can handle those you'll be fine with heart. In fact, because it's a muscle, I count it as meat rather than offal.
The way I do it, I only think about her food once every six weeks when I do a batch. Beyond that I just grab a bag out of the freezer each night, which is about as much effort as measuring a scoop of kibble
With no freezer space, that may be once a week for you, but seriously, it will be about half an hour out of your weekend. Get it all bagged up and ready to go so that if you're ever not home at feeding time, you're only relying on a family member to open a bag into his bowl.
And Judy - heart has about the same ick factor as cutting up a steak - no big deal. Nowhere near the level of liver or kidney so if you can handle those you'll be fine with heart. In fact, because it's a muscle, I count it as meat rather than offal.
Re: Fresh meat
We might have to go the mix route with offal of any description.
The cat stole some of our pork for tea but the chunk was too big for him (I found it a few hours later) washed it and gave it laufey, he loved it, so we'll see how his poo is tomorrow, it wasn't too much so hopefully he'll be fine. I think I'm just going to work it out and try it, then see what she thinks. Fingers crossed it'll go well
The cat stole some of our pork for tea but the chunk was too big for him (I found it a few hours later
) washed it and gave it laufey, he loved it, so we'll see how his poo is tomorrow, it wasn't too much so hopefully he'll be fine. I think I'm just going to work it out and try it, then see what she thinks. Fingers crossed it'll go wellRe: Fresh meat
I'm back again with a couple more raw questions, I'm really thinking we're going to do this when this batch of kibble is gone (I found it cheap and stocked up but I think the one I got less of agrees with him more typical)
Just wondering, a lot of the advice on here is that a chicken wing is a good place to start, are we talking the whole wing (all three sections) or just the upper two sections and not the "hand" bit, which I assume is very boney?
Also, shouldwe go raw gradually or all at once? If it's gradually I'm thinking it would possibly be easier to get the prepacked stuff to ease him onto it (he had a natures menu fish thing the other day and loved it) but is this still good for them and are they complete meals?
I'm giving this serious thought as I'm thinking if I can manage this long term I can possibly get a chest freezer in the living room and stick a cloth over it as a side table, fingers crossed.
Sanna, I'm also going to have a good look at the website you sent me and contact them, although it might be a phone thing and not a visit, I'll have to get a good idea of where they are and if Laufey can travel that far. I'm seriously excited to try this, just hope it doesn't all blow up in my face (very literally knowing Laufey)
typical)Just wondering, a lot of the advice on here is that a chicken wing is a good place to start, are we talking the whole wing (all three sections) or just the upper two sections and not the "hand" bit, which I assume is very boney?
Also, shouldwe go raw gradually or all at once? If it's gradually I'm thinking it would possibly be easier to get the prepacked stuff to ease him onto it (he had a natures menu fish thing the other day and loved it) but is this still good for them and are they complete meals?
I'm giving this serious thought as I'm thinking if I can manage this long term I can possibly get a chest freezer in the living room and stick a cloth over it as a side table, fingers crossed.
Sanna, I'm also going to have a good look at the website you sent me and contact them, although it might be a phone thing and not a visit, I'll have to get a good idea of where they are and if Laufey can travel that far. I'm seriously excited to try this, just hope it doesn't all blow up in my face (very literally knowing Laufey)
Re: Fresh meat
Honestly - it is much easier than you think.
My dogs have steel digestion so I just get whatever is easiest to reach out of the freezer and throw them that. I used to weigh and bag stuff but now I guesstimate so they can get anywhere between 100g-400g a day, this is mostly because I am too lazy to chop stuff, and forget to defrost stuff in advance in order to chop it, but it averages out ok, and if they are porky I keep it on the smaller side for a bit.
I have 4 small dogs and 3 ferrets, and so they get roughly 2lb a day (900g) between all of them (150g each for the 3 littlest terriers, 200 ish gram for fat greedy terrier and rest for ferrets to share)
This works out roughly 1/3 a pack of mince for the little ones, and 1/2 a pack each for Sash and ferrets. Or a 1/3 to a 1/4 of a rabbit each. Or one pigeon or quail each. I'll just get whatever it is out to defrost a couple of hours before and then cut it up and feed it when still partly frozen. Like I say, minimum chopping is a bonus for me so if it's a rabbit and I can just lop it into quarters I'll do that rather than worrying about whether it's 150g or 250g and trying to cut it into 6 pieces or whatever.
Once a week or twice a week I'll split a pack of liver or kidney from Morrisons supermarket (500-600g) between them and that's their offal (either a small meal for them that day, or with a chicken wing, or lamb bone or something extra)
Once a week OH has chicken for dinner, so we buy a whole one and he has the breast and I split the rest between the animals as a meal, either over one or two days depending how big it is.
Morrisons also do lamb stock bones which are about a £1 a pack, and conveniently for me have usually 4 bones in, so they get those quite often - one pack between them (roughly 100-200g each) and I'll throw the ferrets a couple of chicks or eggs that day. The lamb bones would be too much bone for some dogs but mine seem fine on them. But then they are also fine with a whole meal of liver (100 plus gram in one go) so yeah, they are pretty tough!
The dogs also sometimes get chicks (from reptile store) or eggs, or tinned fish as a meal if I've forgotten to defrost stuff because they can eat the chicks frozen.
They do mostly get chicken and lamb because that's whats cheap, but if I buy rabbit I'll bulk buy so there might be a few weeks of mostly rabbit, then a few weeks of mostly lamb, or whatever.
I've been feeding them like this for nearly 3 years now and they are all still alive and my 11 year old just had a glowing bill of health from the vet so it's working ok!
I think Chris delivers in Blackpool now (it's not on his website but is on his facebook page) but only every couple of weeks or so which means you would need enough freezer space. But it's mostly minces which are really easy, and if you were using 1/2 to 1/3 a pack a day like me for one dog (my dogs are 7-10kg) then you'd only need 7 or 8 packs to last a couple of weeks, which would fit in a freezer drawer - http://www.cleardayrawfeeds.com/manifold-valley-meats and you could supplement with the odd supermarket chicken wing, or tin of fish etc.
Whole wing is fine to give, but see how he goes. He might need a bit of encouragement to eat at first, and might be best to stick to one protein source to begin with (I never did, mine were fine).
My dogs have steel digestion so I just get whatever is easiest to reach out of the freezer and throw them that. I used to weigh and bag stuff but now I guesstimate so they can get anywhere between 100g-400g a day, this is mostly because I am too lazy to chop stuff, and forget to defrost stuff in advance in order to chop it, but it averages out ok, and if they are porky I keep it on the smaller side for a bit.
I have 4 small dogs and 3 ferrets, and so they get roughly 2lb a day (900g) between all of them (150g each for the 3 littlest terriers, 200 ish gram for fat greedy terrier and rest for ferrets to share)
This works out roughly 1/3 a pack of mince for the little ones, and 1/2 a pack each for Sash and ferrets. Or a 1/3 to a 1/4 of a rabbit each. Or one pigeon or quail each. I'll just get whatever it is out to defrost a couple of hours before and then cut it up and feed it when still partly frozen. Like I say, minimum chopping is a bonus for me so if it's a rabbit and I can just lop it into quarters I'll do that rather than worrying about whether it's 150g or 250g and trying to cut it into 6 pieces or whatever.
Once a week or twice a week I'll split a pack of liver or kidney from Morrisons supermarket (500-600g) between them and that's their offal (either a small meal for them that day, or with a chicken wing, or lamb bone or something extra)
Once a week OH has chicken for dinner, so we buy a whole one and he has the breast and I split the rest between the animals as a meal, either over one or two days depending how big it is.
Morrisons also do lamb stock bones which are about a £1 a pack, and conveniently for me have usually 4 bones in, so they get those quite often - one pack between them (roughly 100-200g each) and I'll throw the ferrets a couple of chicks or eggs that day. The lamb bones would be too much bone for some dogs but mine seem fine on them. But then they are also fine with a whole meal of liver (100 plus gram in one go) so yeah, they are pretty tough!
The dogs also sometimes get chicks (from reptile store) or eggs, or tinned fish as a meal if I've forgotten to defrost stuff because they can eat the chicks frozen.
They do mostly get chicken and lamb because that's whats cheap, but if I buy rabbit I'll bulk buy so there might be a few weeks of mostly rabbit, then a few weeks of mostly lamb, or whatever.
I've been feeding them like this for nearly 3 years now and they are all still alive and my 11 year old just had a glowing bill of health from the vet so it's working ok!
I think Chris delivers in Blackpool now (it's not on his website but is on his facebook page) but only every couple of weeks or so which means you would need enough freezer space. But it's mostly minces which are really easy, and if you were using 1/2 to 1/3 a pack a day like me for one dog (my dogs are 7-10kg) then you'd only need 7 or 8 packs to last a couple of weeks, which would fit in a freezer drawer - http://www.cleardayrawfeeds.com/manifold-valley-meats and you could supplement with the odd supermarket chicken wing, or tin of fish etc.
Whole wing is fine to give, but see how he goes. He might need a bit of encouragement to eat at first, and might be best to stick to one protein source to begin with (I never did, mine were fine).
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Re: Fresh meat
Nature's Menu do both complete meals and 'just meat', so it depends which you're thinking of. Some of their complete meals contain grain so I'd avoid them, but otherwise they'd be fine. I'd still want to add in some whole bone for tooth-cleaning (unless you are able to brush Laufey's teeth yourself of course). Chicken wings would be fine for this.
Unlike changing kibbles, you're normally advised to change over to raw all in one go - this is because kibble & raw digest at different rates, and also the kibble will interfere with the stomach's ability to digest bone - the stomach acid of a rawfed dog is more acidic than that of a kibble-fed one.
I can't give Jasper his offal all in one meal, because apart from him not liking liver, it would upset his stomach. I also tend to give him pretty much the same amount each day as if he gets noticeably less than normal he gets a bit whingy and will hunt the kitchen for the slightest little crumb or even a bag that once contained food
Unlike changing kibbles, you're normally advised to change over to raw all in one go - this is because kibble & raw digest at different rates, and also the kibble will interfere with the stomach's ability to digest bone - the stomach acid of a rawfed dog is more acidic than that of a kibble-fed one.
I can't give Jasper his offal all in one meal, because apart from him not liking liver, it would upset his stomach. I also tend to give him pretty much the same amount each day as if he gets noticeably less than normal he gets a bit whingy and will hunt the kitchen for the slightest little crumb or even a bag that once contained food
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: Fresh meat
Good insight, thanks Bendog, like Jasper I can't see Laufey doing well on a varying amount - he'd think I was trying to starve him on lean days
The natures menu he had was 'just white fish' and the 400g pack did him four meals but there wasn't much choice in the pets at home freezer when I got it. We'll do the all at once thing then. Should bone be given whole or bashed to begin with?
The natures menu he had was 'just white fish' and the 400g pack did him four meals but there wasn't much choice in the pets at home freezer when I got it. We'll do the all at once thing then. Should bone be given whole or bashed to begin with?
Re: Fresh meat
Some dogs can't get their heads around bones (figuratively as well as literally!) at first, and it can help if they're bashed up, others can launch straight into a whole carcase. Personally, I started just giving bone-in mince for a week, which gives the digestive juices a while to adjust before having to deal with a big bit of bone.
Having said that, Jasper's first raw meal was a whole rabbit he found (already dead, I dread to think how long for
) - he scoffed the lot and had no digestive problems afterwards at all (apart from fluffy poos, but the worst they can do is tickle something rotten as they come out ).
Having said that, Jasper's first raw meal was a whole rabbit he found (already dead, I dread to think how long for
) - he scoffed the lot and had no digestive problems afterwards at all (apart from fluffy poos, but the worst they can do is tickle something rotten as they come out ).Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: Fresh meat
ahahha I'll see what I can whip up for him then, hopefully find a freezer before we start this.
Rabbit won't be on the menu I'm afraid (living rabbits are the only kind welcome in our house) but we'll investigate what else I can get hold of. I'll definitely try him on chicken but might need to find a cheap alternative. The applaws dry food he's on is 75% chicken and his poo isn't as solid... although the one containing lamb still has 71% chicken with only 5% lamb and he did much better on that
Rabbit won't be on the menu I'm afraid (living rabbits are the only kind welcome in our house) but we'll investigate what else I can get hold of. I'll definitely try him on chicken but might need to find a cheap alternative. The applaws dry food he's on is 75% chicken and his poo isn't as solid... although the one containing lamb still has 71% chicken with only 5% lamb and he did much better on that