Games without treats

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JudyN
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Games without treats

Post by JudyN »

The forecast here doesn't look great and I'm wondering if a second walk will be on or not... As far as Jasper is concerned, indoor play is simply a way of earning treats. Hide and Seek, he brings the item to me and gets the treat. Nina Ottosson games are all about treats, as is clicker training, free shaping, treat balls, fetch... Even in tug he will keep dropping the tug toy in the hope it will earn him a treat. He doesn't particularly seem to find the activities rewarding in themselves (though chasing balls in the garden is).

It's not a great problem, as something like Hide & Seek doesn't involve a constant stream of treats, and he's happy with tiny bits of small-bite kibble as a reward, but it would be nice to find some way of de-beaning him which was fun in itself and didn't involve giving him calories that he wouldn't get a chance to burn off. I'm almost tempted to put humping his bed on cue as that is the one activity that is both energetic and self-rewarding :lol:

Any better suggestions, please?
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Ari_RR
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Re: Games without treats

Post by Ari_RR »

Take an old, no longer needed pair of sleepers, put in the closet, "accidentally" leave the the closet door open, let him find the sleepers and steal one, then chase him around the house.... around the dining table... around the sofa.. all over the place.

At some point he may drop it on the floor and wait, as you get closer - grab it and run away, so the trick here (now its a game for you) is to see how close you can get to him before he grabs it and runs away... try coming to him slowly... backwards... looking the other way... crawling... see what works :lol: :lol: Lots of fun, even though of a crude, unrefined kind :lol:

And if someone can take a video of you while playing this game with Jasper - all the better!
JudyN
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Re: Games without treats

Post by JudyN »

That sounds like a lot of fun, if a good way of teaching bad habits :lol:

What are sleepers? Slippers? is that a standard US term?
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Ari_RR
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Re: Games without treats

Post by Ari_RR »

yeah.. slippers! old shoes!
Good fun often goes hand in hand with less than perfect manners :wink:
tylerthegiant
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Re: Games without treats

Post by tylerthegiant »

Have you tried phasing out the treat with games just like you would with any cue?

If you've never done "find it" you could start that game, having him find a toy, and the reward could be a game of tug of fetch as the reward instead of a treat.
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JudyN
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Re: Games without treats

Post by JudyN »

tylerthegiant wrote:Have you tried phasing out the treat with games just like you would with any cue?

If you've never done "find it" you could start that game, having him find a toy, and the reward could be a game of tug of fetch as the reward instead of a treat.
'find it' is actually what I meant by hide and seek - I show him the toy, ask him to wait, hide it in another room and when he finds it he brings it to me in exchange for a treat. It's a great game as it works on so many skills, and has a very low 'treats per minute rating', but I think if I tried to reward it with tug he would just wonder where his treat was and either not take the tug toy, or take it, drop it, and expect a treat for that.

In general I've not been very good at phasing out treats because they work well for us - maybe it's a bit of a catch-22.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
tylerthegiant
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Re: Games without treats

Post by tylerthegiant »

I have a feeling you're better at phasing out the treat than you think. I doubt that every time you ask Jasper for a cue you have a treat on you, do you?

When Jasper brings back the toy if he just sits there expecting a treat you could take the toy, throw it all around, run around the room with it, put it on your head, just make it WAY more interesting than a little treat, and I'd bet he'd start playing with you.
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JudyN
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Re: Games without treats

Post by JudyN »

You know, I initiated a game of tug with him today and it was quite interesting in terms of what I did/thought rather than he did...

First, I was convinced that if I let it go on for too long, he would get overexcited and start jumping up, mouthing, and trying to hump me, so I didn't feel I could let it run its course.

Second, as well as wanting to get a bit of control back into the game for the reason above, I very soon got bored and thought 'Might as well do a bit of obedience' and so asked him to drop it - whereupon he expected a treat... and got it. And it I rolled a ball for him and he just looked at it, I asked him to bring it to me and I felt I had to reward him.

I think it's a hangover from his ridiculously possessive days that I just want to throw a party for him every time he lets go of anything :lol: I really must put more work into 'just playing'.

Now here's a question - with a dog with a bite history, and who can get a bit firm with his mouthing if overexcited, would you allow 'no pressure' mouthing in play? I usually ask for 'no bite' which he understands, but 'no pressure' mouthing does seem like a natural way for a dog to play so maybe it should be allowed :?:
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
tylerthegiant
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Re: Games without treats

Post by tylerthegiant »

Hmmm.....I don't know. I hear different schools of thought on that. I usually don't allow that kind of play because it's so easy for the dog to get over aroused in play. Lucas is the exception, and very rarely do I do it, only as a high value reward for something REALLY hard for him because he LOVES it, and because he's very soft mouthed, and turns off instantly when I give the hand signal for all done. But mostly I just don't like it.
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Nettle
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Re: Games without treats

Post by Nettle »

Given Jasper's history, if he were mine I would be on zero tolerance. It is okay to allow 'lite bite' with dogs that have bite inhibition or are not particularly mouthy, but as Jas is excitable and prone to pushing boundaries, it's better to have a firm boundary in this case rather than a flexible one, because if the latter, he may always seek to push it just that bit harder.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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