vegetarian / vegan dog foods...

[runlikethewind]

Hi there

What are people's views on this. I understand soya is a known allergen for dogs and can cause a lot of trouble. Hence why alot of the vegan food brands get the protein from cereals ( I didn't know you could, TBH!)

[easilyconfused]

It is possible for a dog to survive on a veggie/vegan diet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... -ten-years

Comparative health compared to an identical dog with a better diet is poor however. Do you want your dog to survive or thrive?

[tansox]

Definitely not something I would expect my dog to eat. If people wish to become vegetarian or vegan surely that's their choice, dogs are carnivores = eat meat!

[Nettle]

Highly immoral for anyone to foist their prejudices on an animal that relies on them.

Soya is bad (for us too ) indefensible in environmental terms (usually grown in 3rd world countries at the expense of the local agriculture, and also implicated in deforestation) and dodgy in toxicity terms as often processed the cheapest way, in aluminium vats (so the ally passes into the soya). In dogs, because it produces saponins (soapy stuff) in the digestive process, it is implicated in causing bloat in susceptible animals.

Vegetarian is dodgy too - what are the protein sources? Eggs and dairy. Why not just give them meat?

Dogs have trouble processing any cereal starches too - hence why it all has to be cooked.

Dogs can survive on a vegan diet, but it's a long way from a healthy one. Dogs can survive on all sorts of rubbish food.

[runlikethewind]

Wow Nettle I learn something every day from you - re soya I knew most of what you were talking about but didn't realise about the alu. You seem to have the same investigate mind that I have but you have vastly more than me!!!

[Nettle]

I'm probably a great deal older, Runliketw! So I've been feeding my cynical mind for far longer.

Try Canine health Concern and What Doctors Don't tell You sites for all sorts of fascinating information, all properly referenced and backed by research.

[jacksdad]

Highly immoral for anyone to foist their prejudices on an animal that relies on them.

just seemed like something that bares repeating

It might just be a California thing, but it seems to me that people who choose to be vegetarian for a values/ethic/morality reason first and foremost verses a health reason, just in general seem to be a bit "off" and not quit rational across the board. I know that is a bit "broad brushed" and not always the case, but that just seems to be the case a lot of the time from my very unscientific observations from over the years.

On the other hand I have found people who choose to be vegetarian more so for health reasons rather than a values/ethic/morality reason, tend to be much more balanced across the board and much more rational.

But it could be that I am a bit overly influenced in this perception living in California.

[Nettle]

It's like that in Brighton, too which is a short drive from here.

We even had a kooky couple who started up an insurance company (in the back room) that only insured vegans because vegans of course did not get nasty illnesses that meat-eaters like me do.

Nobody told them that even vegans have to die of something

[elisa]

Oh do I sense some prejudices against vegetarians. I'd like to think of myself as a rational person even though I'm (lacto-ovo)vegetarian for environmental reasons, which could be thought of as moral. But yeah granted some vegetarians are not so rational and a bit "on a high horse" if I got the saying right.

To the topic. I personally think that feeding a dog vegetarian/vegan food is stupid. Dogs eat meat. If a dog eating meat is a problem - don't get a dog. I had to think on this before getting my puppy, but figured fifteen years of being vegetarian and continuing so sort of balances things out. (It doesn't really, but some people don't even think about this sort of things.)

Any other vegetarian dog owners? I'd like to hear what you think.

I did get happy when my dog liked cheese more than hot dogs. We could "share" food for once.

[Nettle]

I don't have any prejudices agains vegetarian humans - I'd defend to the death anybody's right to eat what they want to. It's when animals are fed incorrect diets due to ideology corrupting responsibilty that I stand up to be counted. We can choose, but the dogs can't. I'd make the same waves about people feeding their dogs on human junk food - but if people want to live on junk food, that's up to them and I am not in the slightest bit prejudiced - nor in the slightest bit interested.

I have quite a few veggie friends and they all feed their dogs meat.

[jacksdad]

I honestly and truly believe in your freedom of choice to be or not to be a vegetarian to whatever degree you feel is right for you. I honestly don't get prejudice against someone simply because they chose to eat limited types of meat to no meat at all.

But where I also draw the line is when someone tries to force their choice of diet through peer pressure, legal and or/other means on others. Particularly if that "choice" would be harmful or unwanted. argue your case all you want, end of the day it is my/your choice to be or not to be and it's wrong to force such a choice on those it would be inappropriate to be a vegetarian.

A strict vegetarian diet is also not appropriate for everyone. Our doctor kept telling my wife less meat, more veggie..but she continued to have the issues he was suggesting this would fix. the "diet" she is currently on she has to eat more meat then we normally would (which really wasn't all that much more since we don't eat all that much anyway) along with select vegetables and no breads. the issues have gone away. oh and no, it's not the Atkins diet, that diet is dangerous.

I do admittedly have a harder time being "tolerant" when someone crosses those lines.

I will be honest, I don't get the some of moral reasons people feel/believe in terms choosing not to eat meat. I comprehend the argument, I just don't see the moral "issue". But hey, I don't have to in order to acknowledge your freedom to choose, right? Much like you or I don't have to "get" someone's choice of religion.

by your opening couple sentences, it sounds like you have probably seen/experienced what I was getting at, but just wanted to be sure we were on the same page.

[Noobs]

I will be honest, I don't get the some of moral reasons people feel/believe in terms choosing not to eat meat. I comprehend the argument, I just don't see the moral "issue". But hey, I don't have to in order to acknowledge your freedom to choose, right? Much like you or I don't have to "get" someone's choice of religion.

To play devil's advocate here, I can tell you the moral reasons people choose not to eat meat. It's because animals are sentient beings who feel pain. And why is it that we in the Western world have no trouble eating cows, pigs, lamb, chickens, and fish, but are horrified that in some Eastern cultures dogs and cats are eaten? Some people eat regular steak but avoid veal because veal comes from baby cows that live on a chain their entire short life so that the meat is more tender. I have a vegan friend who has become somewhat militant about his veganism. I say something about animal cruelty regarding abused dogs, and he'll come back with something about me being a meat eater. (Meanwhile he's a tech geek who has a bunch of electronic products that are probably made in the Congo where humans are abused daily. There's really no winning.)

Really, more power to you if you have the resolve and discipline to live your life cruelty-free. I am all for people making whatever food choices they make. But telling other people that they are somehow immoral or inferior for making different choices? Not okay.

[Nettle]

I respect the choice, but the arguments don't hold water if one takes into account how animals live and die. I do source my own meat responsibly - well-kept outdoor-raised stock from small local farms, and game we get ourselves, but that is because I am lucky enough to have those opportunities and (now) sufficient income.

I have been very poor in the past, and then I ate what there was and what I could afford, because I came first and you can't eat a principle or pay the bills with it.


Vegetarianism is not cruelty-free - it uses the hired assassin. Many many animals and smaller things are killed to protect crops in the field and in store.

I repeat - I respect the choice, and nobody needs to justify it so far as I am concerned. But if they argue a case in order to convert/brainwash others - they must expect to be challenged. Please note this does NOT apply to our vegetarian poster on this thread, who is simply and politely making a point. As indeed am I.

[jacksdad]

Like I said, I comprehend many of the reasons that go more into a moral/ideological reasoning. I just don't get some of them, as in why it's even an issue to lose sleep over. They don't make sense to me.

at the risk of highjacking this thread even more, let me expand on that a little. I get the choice to go vegetarian because you have health issues that might require or benefit. I get maybe choosing to not buy meat from sources that have questionable practices in raising the animal and killing the animal for food. But the basic idea that there is something morally wrong with killing and eating an animal solely for the purpose of survival and needing to eat is a matter of survival, I don't get. the counter argument is we "don't NEED meat", but I am not entirely convinced that is true. I get that we in the western world eat way too much meat because we are fortunate to have such an ample and inexpensive supply but that is a dietary issue to me, not a moral one.

why is ok for a lion to kill and eat a gazelle, but not me? or a bear to kill and eat a cow. or a wolf to get a lamb but not me?

I think sometimes that the more "modern" we get the more we lose sight of the fact we are animals too. that we too are part of nature and all that entails. I think we build "moral/ethical" issues sometime where there are none in reality. just my two cents. I realize others out there may or will disagree and I have no problem with that. each of us has to live our lives the way that allows us to sleep sound at night.

back to the thread, i completely do NOT get how you could justify extending your morals to your cat or dog in terms of their dietary needs or natural behavior. that I don't get and am probably not as tactful in these situations as I could/should be.

[Nettle]

I agree, Jacksdad, and am also reminded of a saying to the effect that there are no faddy eaters in a war.

I do have a lot more respect for people who just quietly get on with eating the way they want than I have for those who shout it from the rooftops, try and get others to live the same way, and most of all, keep their animals on a restrictive and biologically incorrect diet.