Last Monday I got a GSD mix. Koa is a male neutered 6 yr old dog whose owner has had him since he was a puppy. I'm going to have him for awhile until she gets stable housing again. Koa and my 13 year old daughter get along wonderfully, but he and I are still figuring each other out. Yesterday we had a problem, and I've an idea what to do but wanted advice/feedback.
I noticed Koa liked to play tug-o-war with his 2 toys- small ball and small nylon toy. This wasn't good as he wouldn't drop the toy and didn't distinguish well between fingers and toy. I bought him a rope toy thinking with a larger toy it would be better- not so much. So no more tug-o-war games.
Yesterday I tossed his rope toy, he retrieved it and brought it to me. His owner told me she holds his collar and tells him to drop the toy while holding (not tugging) it. I tried this. I held his collar with one hand so he couldn't tug, held the toy in my other hand and told him to "drop it". He did after several times of me telling him, barked, then promptly turned and bit my arm (the one that had been holding his collar). I told him to go to his bed, which he did after I repeated the command. The rope toy was put away in a closet. The bite didn't break the skin, but did cause bruising.
I decided to start training him on "drop it" and "leave it". Today I got the treats and practiced "sit" and "lie down" a few times- he knows both of those really well. Then I got the rope toy, tossed it, and when he brought it back he dropped it seeing the treat in my hand. I timed the command "drop it" with when he dropped it, and treated. Then we worked on "leave it" using one treat to "leave" and giving treat from other hand when he did. As soon as we finished, I put the toy away again.
Is this the best way to handle him? Something else or better I could be doing?
GSD Biting
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Re: GSD Biting
well as you learned, grabbing the collar is a bad idea. your new approach is a much better way.
some lessons for your experience so far
fetch, tug of war etc are ok games nothing wrong with them however, clearly Koa needs to learn some new skills.
the bit, dispute the bruising, did have a level of inhibition in. this is a good thing. also it could be argued that he didn't do anything bad. that after trying to communicate something to you unsuccessfully, felt a bit was his last option.
garbing the collar is similar to attacking the neck to the dog. particularly in this situation. Koa's owner has probably gotten away with because koa is very familiar with them. but not with you. so the move was more threatening. the owner shouldn't be doing it either.
if you must ever give a time out, don't use his safe places. crates, beds etc. these needs to be safe places and associated with good things.
Moving forward
I think teaching a solid "drop" and "leave it" are a excellent ideas. when doing this, be sure you do not repeat the command. if you do, this teaches the dog to ignore you or wait until the third or forth time you say the command making you think the dog is ignoring you, when the dog may actually be thinking the command is drop, drop, drop, verse just drop.
using drop when playing fetch is a great approach. but only use drop when playing fetch IF you are 95% sure or better the command is solid. so build it up. make it easy for the koa to win a reward (treat, praise, game continues etc depending on what makes sense at the time) for dropping. start with the request being easy in low distraction situations and when NOT playing fetch and tug. build up to using it when playing fetch and tug of war.
for when his teeth get a little too involved in the game you can try making a loud "yelp" noise and turn and walk away for a second ending the game. but you have to time this for the exact second his teach hit your hands. Only use this approach if the "yelp" doesn't scare him.
you can also, just end the game. do a reverse time out. instead of you sending the dog to "sit in the corner" so to speak. you remove your self soon as his teeth become to involved. teeth = end of game.
The thing to remember, not dropping, too much teeth while playing is not being a bad dog, so punishment won't teach the dog anything. the dog is just becoming over excited. the solution is to teach boundaries such as teeth on hands ends the game. and new skills such as drop on command the ball so you can throw it again to be fetched again.
some lessons for your experience so far
fetch, tug of war etc are ok games nothing wrong with them however, clearly Koa needs to learn some new skills.
the bit, dispute the bruising, did have a level of inhibition in. this is a good thing. also it could be argued that he didn't do anything bad. that after trying to communicate something to you unsuccessfully, felt a bit was his last option.
garbing the collar is similar to attacking the neck to the dog. particularly in this situation. Koa's owner has probably gotten away with because koa is very familiar with them. but not with you. so the move was more threatening. the owner shouldn't be doing it either.
if you must ever give a time out, don't use his safe places. crates, beds etc. these needs to be safe places and associated with good things.
Moving forward
I think teaching a solid "drop" and "leave it" are a excellent ideas. when doing this, be sure you do not repeat the command. if you do, this teaches the dog to ignore you or wait until the third or forth time you say the command making you think the dog is ignoring you, when the dog may actually be thinking the command is drop, drop, drop, verse just drop.
using drop when playing fetch is a great approach. but only use drop when playing fetch IF you are 95% sure or better the command is solid. so build it up. make it easy for the koa to win a reward (treat, praise, game continues etc depending on what makes sense at the time) for dropping. start with the request being easy in low distraction situations and when NOT playing fetch and tug. build up to using it when playing fetch and tug of war.
for when his teeth get a little too involved in the game you can try making a loud "yelp" noise and turn and walk away for a second ending the game. but you have to time this for the exact second his teach hit your hands. Only use this approach if the "yelp" doesn't scare him.
you can also, just end the game. do a reverse time out. instead of you sending the dog to "sit in the corner" so to speak. you remove your self soon as his teeth become to involved. teeth = end of game.
The thing to remember, not dropping, too much teeth while playing is not being a bad dog, so punishment won't teach the dog anything. the dog is just becoming over excited. the solution is to teach boundaries such as teeth on hands ends the game. and new skills such as drop on command the ball so you can throw it again to be fetched again.
Re: GSD Biting
I bet your body language was threatening to him, think about this, you have the dog by the collar, the dog doesn't know you very well, having hold of a dog's collar like this is a threatening act to the dog. Not only do you have him by the collar but you are "Telling" him, this will change your body language, stiffen, grow, may even be leaning over him a bit, your voice is getting louder and louder and higher and higher, to drop something he adores and hasn't learnt how to obey this command. Your body language is getting more intimidating by being stiffer and stiffer and your voice is also getting intimidating, your dog feels you are being aggressive to him and he needs to defend himself. If you had a 3 year old boy who refused to give up a toy, would you get hold of him by the collar and act like this? No you wouldn't you would think of another way to get him to give it up, a dog is similar to a 3 year old child.ithinkican wrote:Last Monday I got a GSD mix. Koa is a male neutered 6 yr old dog whose owner has had him since he was a puppy. I'm going to have him for awhile until she gets stable housing again. Koa and my 13 year old daughter get along wonderfully, but he and I are still figuring each other out. Yesterday we had a problem, and I've an idea what to do but wanted advice/feedback.
I noticed Koa liked to play tug-o-war with his 2 toys- small ball and small nylon toy. This wasn't good as he wouldn't drop the toy and didn't distinguish well between fingers and toy. I bought him a rope toy thinking with a larger toy it would be better- not so much. So no more tug-o-war games.
Yesterday I tossed his rope toy, he retrieved it and brought it to me. His owner told me she holds his collar and tells him to drop the toy while holding (not tugging) it. I tried this. I held his collar with one hand so he couldn't tug, held the toy in my other hand and told him to "drop it". He did after several times of me telling him, barked, then promptly turned and bit my arm (the one that had been holding his collar). I told him to go to his bed, which he did after I repeated the command. The rope toy was put away in a closet. The bite didn't break the skin, but did cause bruising.
Don't just work with treats, there are many ways to reward a dog as well as treats, if they have been fed recently most dogs won't be interested in them. It is far better to ask them to work for different rewards than stick to one.
Until he is much better trained leave the tugging games alone, all that will happen is he gets over excited then can't obey the commands he has recently learnt. You need to set him up to succeed, by playing tugger with him at the moment when his training is far along enough is setting him up to fail.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
