Other dogs

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DogzRule1996
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Other dogs

Post by DogzRule1996 »

Our dog, Buddy, walks okish while on a leash, but then when he sees another dog he just goes BERSERK and turning the other way doesn't work. Once he's got his eyes locked on that dog he won't turn away, and he ignores treats and other temptations to distract him. I've tried walking away but sometimes he'll hear the jingle of the other dog's collar or the other dog will bark. What should I do?
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jacksdad
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Re: Other dogs

Post by jacksdad »

DogzRule1996 wrote:Our dog, Buddy, walks okish while on a leash, but then when he sees another dog he just goes BERSERK and turning the other way doesn't work. Once he's got his eyes locked on that dog he won't turn away, and he ignores treats and other temptations to distract him. I've tried walking away but sometimes he'll hear the jingle of the other dog's collar or the other dog will bark. What should I do?
you have to catch his attention before he "locks" onto the other dog. The turn and go the other direction actually doesn't teach a whole lot. it's mostly to avoid the other dog or once your dog is "freaking out" to get the heck out of dodge as quickly as possible.

You have to teach the U turn though, so if you know buddy is likely to do this, start practicing making a quick U turn when no dogs are around. My verbal cue is "about"...as in about face. seems to work pretty good. but pick what makes sense for you and is easy to remember since you will be doing it under stress.

if he is ignoring treats, your too close to the other dog and you missed your window to use treats to reinforce calm. buddy isn't ignoring you, his stress levels have just jumped beyond the point he is in control of him self and is not capable of listening to you. you need to figure out what distance he can remain calm and be aware of the other dog, and then do your best to keep that distance for now. Over time you can reduce that distance, but you need to move slow and at your dogs pace.

as for treats, if your dog responds to treats for his reward and is generally food motivated you need to find a very high value treat. generally this will be real meat such as chicken, hot dogs, beef jerky etc. any dog safe meat/food works. you might have to do a little trial and error to figure out what works though. then I would recommend saving that food for ONLY when out on walks to keep it special.

if your dog is play/toy motivated then figure out a special toy or game that you can use to reward and distract with.

by the way, how old is buddy?
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DogzRule1996
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Re: Other dogs

Post by DogzRule1996 »

he's a year and a half and we've tried chicken and everything. it's not just that he ignores it when he's near a dog, but he totally ignores it when he's on a walk. all his focus is to the ground (sniffing) or just trying to get to a pole to sniff or something. ill try the u turn trick, but im not sure if it's going to work.
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DogzRule1996
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Re: Other dogs

Post by DogzRule1996 »

the u turn trick doesn't work. buddy refuses to go the other direction once he's already WALKED in that direction. he wants to continue walking FORWARD because i'm guessing he thinks we're about to turn home and end our walk early or something :? do i just gently urge him to turn or do i try a different method?
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Mattie
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Re: Other dogs

Post by Mattie »

DogzRule you are leaving it far too late to turn and walk the other way, you are taller than him and can see dogs before him, take action before he sees the dog not after, it is too late after, his brain has shut down and nothing will work, you need to get him before this happens.

At the moment you are not doing this properly, unless you do your dog will get worse and worse and may do another dog harm and may also hurt you by pulling you over, I have seen dogs pull over their owners into a road in front of a vehicle, that could happen to you unless you do this properly.

Do you have a harness on him? If you are trying to do this on a collar or head collar you could do a lot of damage to the neck, he must have a strong harness on. If he has a strong harness on you can pull him away, you won't damage him, if you try to pull him away in a collar or headcollar you can do damage.

Each time he reacts to a dog he is self rewarding, this type of reward is extremely high value so the next time he sees a dog he has had a high value reward so will try harder to get to the other dog, unless you STOP this now, you are putting yourself in danger.

Read the posts, they say turn BEFORE your dog sees the other dog if possible, they all say the same thing but you are not doing it. You are reading the posts but not taking the information in, maybe there is too much information and your brain can't cope, that happens to me at times with too much information.

Buddy is frightened of other dogs and he doesn't trust you to protect him so is trying to protect himself, you can't protect him unless you take him away much earlier.

You can do this, in lots of ways you are doing really well but are having a glitch with this, as soon as you know there is a dog ahead, turn and walk the other way, if Buddy doesn't want to go, gently stroke the lead by putting your hand as far forward as you can and gently stroke the lead towards you, keep doing this and Buddy will walk towards you. Don't know how this works but it does, try it with a friend holding the lead with you.
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MichelleD
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Re: Other dogs

Post by MichelleD »

Timing is critical. I've been working on my "u-turn" timing since practically Day 1 with my dog! I'm getting better at it, but it takes practice (and god knows I get way too much practice! lol) It definitely has to be done quickly, swiftly, and confidently without looking back. Sometimes Gordon, when I turn, will then be behind me ... I keep walking confidently away, while saying excitedly "come on, let's go!" and he follows. If he catches sight of the other dog the only thing that can save the situation is distance -- hopefully the dog is far enough away that I can still get him to turn around (he'll probably keep looking backward, though). Too close and we're all in trouble... :roll:

I think the easy-walk harness does make it a little easier to turn him around, if you haven't tried it yet, DogzRule. I'm certainly no expert to give advice, but of all the collars and harnesses I've tried, I feel most comfortable with this one.
runlikethewind
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Re: Other dogs

Post by runlikethewind »

I think the OP is also saying it's not just when there are dogs around, but her dog does it all the time, ie pulls and sniffs on the ground. So basically, it is a pulling problem as well which is easily sorted! In the training articles section - look up loose leash walking. Great tip on how to do it.
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DogzRule1996
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Re: Other dogs

Post by DogzRule1996 »

He doesn't seem to be afraid of other dogs. Sometimes when in the park the other dog would just run up to us leash free and Buddy would start sniffing and his tail would start wagging and he'd get into the bow position and want to play with the other dog. I've actually been practicing the u-turn trick in our yard. Once he goes in one direction, he wants to go FORWARD, not turn around and go back. And we use a harness that doesn't wrap around the neck at all. It's basically a trail harness minus the neck part, so it just wraps around the chest. And when we're on actual walks, I see them and I try to turn around, but he just stands there and refuses to go the other direction. He'd just sit there or stand there and not move. And obviously his ears are way sharper than mine, so even if the dog is across the street and still about 100+feet away, he can hear the jingle of the collar or the dog barking and he'll turn and quickly bark back. Why won't he go BACK the direction he's walked in even if he's in our yard?
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jacksdad
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Re: Other dogs

Post by jacksdad »

I was just going to also suggest the loose lead thread as a base for teaching the U turn.

Also, don't just assume your dog isn't afraid when on leash because he doesn't display the same behavior off leash. When on leash your dog has almost no choice in movement and is very restricted. May not feel like it to you, but to your dog it does. So, when he see's other dogs he can't maneuver in doggy style to meet and greet the other dog. This can cause fear or it could cause frustration. Both can lead to going "berserk" on leash when another dog is around.

While it's safer to assume your dog is responding in fear for many reasons, your could be right about it not being fear. he could be feeling frustrated because he can't just bound over and say hi. which in it's self is dangerous because you don't know anything about the other dogs.

The good news is it doesn't matter if your dog is fearful, or frustrated, you fix it the same way. teach your dog a new response when it sees other dogs.

again on the treats. If your dog is stressed, it won't take treats. The stress of fear and the stress of excitement is still stress. So, if your dog is otherwise receptive to food and treats, but not out on a walk you need to find higher value treats. chicken may not be high enough value to your dog to stop what he is doing be it sniffing or focusing in on another dog. my dog works for chicken...inside, outside chicken is ho hum. you can even experiment with foods he has to lick. for some dogs that is much more rewarding and calming then a small chunk of something.

if your dog doesn't seem all that motivated by food in low/no stress/distraction situation like at home inside, then it is possible your dog maybe play/toy motivated.

It's also possible you just haven't leaned what your dog will work for. It's important to remember, food is most common, but in the end the dog chooses the reward and what your dog considers a reward and you you might assume is a reward could be two completely different things. So experiment and pay attention to what gets him really excited and motivated.

as for dogs. even if his response isn't fear based, but rather impulse control and or over excitement seeing another dog, you might give some serious thought to avoiding dogs all together for a couple weeks. This might mean having to drive to a out of the way park or location for walks and play with your and your dog, but if your dogs stress/adrenaline levels are up, even though it may not be fear, your dog isn't going to be very receptive to any training. I know it won't be easy, but it's worth doing. You really have nothing to lose by doing so, and lots to gain. everything from a "fresh start" with a calmer dog, to having spent some quality bonding time without distractions and stress.

teaching the U turn and watch me or look at the dog, all tools involved in teaching a new response towards dogs, need to start in low distraction places like your living room or fenced in back yard if you have one. and it may take a couple weeks or more depending on the dog before you can really use these tools in real life. one of my mistakes with my dog who is fearful, was to try and use these tools too early in his training and to not work harder to avoid dogs all together in the meantime. But then I didn't understand even the basics of stress/anxiety/excitement in dogs like I do now.
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DogzRule1996
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Re: Other dogs

Post by DogzRule1996 »

That's what I've been doing. The uturn trick in our fenced backyard, but he acts the same way. He doesn't seem to want to turn around while on a leash, but if you were to take him off leash and guide him with a treat he follows. Should I just do it off leash first and then introduce the leash? And when he's outside I definitely know that he is NOT toy motivated. We've bought tug ropes and tennis balls and his favorite squeaky toys but he just doesn't seem all that interested once he's out in the open world. I think he's more interested in all the different smells and meeting other people/dogs :? And he was on a leash when the other dogs come to greet him. I don't quite trust him off the leash yet, because he's a very curious adventurous dog and he'll bound off toward any small thing moving or if a rabbit comes by ZOOOOM off he goes.

I've tried everything from chicken to apples but nothing seems to work. All he cares about is the fact that he's on a walk and he gets a long walk all the way down to the elementary school and around the lake and back home. Sometimes when I see a dog and I'm near houses, I'll go and hide between the houses until the dog goes by. This has worked but obviously there aren't always houses around and I end up standing behind a large tree or something, but that doesn't always work because he picks up the scent of the other dog and he hears the other dog barking or the sound of the collar jingling, so he'll act up. He just isn't food or toy motivated or anything motivated. I've actually tried petting him and talking to him when the other dog passes by. That actually works, except when the other dog starts barking and acting up, he loses everything and barks back.
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jacksdad
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Re: Other dogs

Post by jacksdad »

if you have a fenced in backyard, then by all means try teaching the U turn off leash if he will walk a "heel" without the leash then add in the leash later. If he is motivated by sniffing, use that as a reward. figure out how to get buddy to do what you want, then let him do what he wants...sniff.

remember dog chooses the reward and if sniffing is something he really, really wants to do, figure out how to use that as his reward. worth a try.
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DogzRule1996
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Re: Other dogs

Post by DogzRule1996 »

But this only works in the backyard. When he's out in the real world he won't listen at all. You can't even urge him to eat it or sniff it. It's like trying to get a toddler to eat his spinach/beans or something.
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DogzRule1996
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Re: Other dogs

Post by DogzRule1996 »

Update:
It's been raining and we haven't been able to take him out, but when it stops for a few minutes I'll take him out to the backyard and continue training. Once I took him outside and right away we saw a rabbit and he completely lost control. Why is it that dogs act up when they see other animals (except humans)?
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Nettle
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Re: Other dogs

Post by Nettle »

Dogs are predators: that's why other animals are fascinating to them.

Dogs can go out in the rain :wink: if it's torrential freezing cold rain I quite understand about not going out, but normal rain - they don't melt and nor do we :lol: I've just got back in from a long rainy walk.
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