he seems to be going backwards!

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**liz**
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:55 am
Location: Gloucestershire, England

he seems to be going backwards!

Post by **liz** »

Hi All,

Riley (4 1/2 month male lab) seem to be regressing in simple commannds and really showed me up at out training club last night!
We were going through the wait (stay) command which he has been brilliant at since he was about 10 weeks and he just couldn't do it!!! we didn't use his normal treats as we had forgotten to bring them so we went to the pet shop on the way to club and bought a different brand which were so smelly they nearly knocked my socks off! so i thought this could be why! (we usually use his normal dried food as treats!)
Our trainer said that sometimes a puppy will go through a bit of a cocky stage and try and push the boundries! its just as well that i am more stubborn than he is!

has anyone else been through this with a puppy??
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Nettle
Posts: 10753
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: he seems to be going backwards!

Post by Nettle »

It's very common to have a pup brilliant to start with and then regress - and they regress because they don't see the point of doing what they are being told to do, or because they hurt somewhere, or because they are bored, or because they want to do something else.

It's a lot to ask of a little pup, all this formal stuff. What I do with mine at that age is take them out and about seeing things. We learn about all sorts of things together. Pup learns to come when it's called and walk nicely to heel on and off the lead. I've honestly no use for this sit-stay-down-up stuff. Have you? Not a criticism at all, just that some trainers can get fixated on exercises that are boring and pointless to a dog, and it's easy for us owners just to go along with it.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
**liz**
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:55 am
Location: Gloucestershire, England

Re: he seems to be going backwards!

Post by **liz** »

i do find the general commands like 'stay' quite useful as i dont let Riley have free roam of the house, if i go into the garage i ask him to wait at the door as i don't allow him there because there is alot in there that could harm him! also in the evenings when the kids are in bed, after his walk its quiet time so i ask to go to his cushion and get him to lie down using 'down'. so i do feel that these commands are useful.
I also want Riley to understand that when i ask him to do something he must do it! i do not ask him to do things for no reason, i ask him to do things that will benefit him or keep him safe (like 'sit' when thr front door is being opened so he wont run out into the road), i know he doesnt understand this is the reason i am asking him to do things and it is the same with the children, in order to keep them safe you do have to make them understand 'do as you are told'!

Thank you for your reply to my post, it's nice to have people to chat to about Riley, i think all of my family are getting a little irritated by my contant jabbering about how wonderful, and troublesome he can be! (and he can certainly be both!! lol)
Labsrule
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:01 pm

Re: he seems to be going backwards!

Post by Labsrule »

Hi Liz I think Riley is doing vey well for a young pup, at his age they soak up information like a sponge, so train, train, train, but only is very short bite size bits. Meeting and greeting dogs/people is a must while he is small and controllable. Full grown and weighing a ton is a lot harder believe me :oops: If you get him familiar with all sorts of scenarios now; busy shopping centres, schools, traffic etc, it will pay off big time when he is older as he will not be fazed by much.

Formal training classes as Nettle said can be jolly boring for a pup particularly as it sounds as if he more or less knows the basics. I found that one of mine used to just 'switch off' after a few minutes at classes, he needed more demanding stuff to learn so you may like to teach him to retrieve, something that Labs do naturally and enjoy. Also hiding treats about the house/garden and getting him to hunt helps to stimulate his busy little brain and wear him out. Labs are smashing dogs but not always as easy as people think, they can be very demanding and when they get to about 18 months you sometimes feel that all that training you did counted for nothing, devil dog stage, but they do grow out of it!! Good luck, Sue.
jacksdad
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: he seems to be going backwards!

Post by jacksdad »

**liz** wrote:i do find the general commands like 'stay' quite useful.....
oh they can be quite useful, but I think a lot of people get stuck on learning the basics in a formal way. ie, we train ever day, work on sit, stay, down etc. one reason I think people get stuck is because the basics are so easy to teach. the other is probably like Nettle says, they get over emphasized beyond what is needed to teach the skill

once a dog learns these, it can be boring for them to just go over and over the same basic thing. Once your dog can do a sit, don't keep asking him to do it over and over in a formal training session, rather ask him to do it went it make sense during day to day activities, after all that is why you trained him to this skill in the fist place.

Once your dog is good at sit/stay/down etc the basics, move on to other skills in your formal training sessions. don't keep going over the same ground over and over.
**liz**
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:55 am
Location: Gloucestershire, England

Re: he seems to be going backwards!

Post by **liz** »

Thank you for replying to my post everyone!!

I understand what you are staying. I do play hiding games with Riley and its so much fun for him but unfortunately he is not very good at 'fetch'!!! :( He is a lab so i expeced him to want to do it! :( He does go and get whatever it is that i throw and then runs half way back and then realises that if he comes to me i am going to take it off him and throw it again! he is not keen of giving his toys away! lol How can i teach him to play fetch??
And on this note, how do i stop him from running off with things he is not allowed? he will find a shoe or something and run like the wind when i get close to him and it is impossible to catch him!!

Is there anywhere i can get ideas on games for puppies as i think Riley would benefit from them! He has a kong and a few chew toys but nothing that gets him to use his mind!

Thanks again for your help!
x
Labsrule
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:01 pm

Re: he seems to be going backwards!

Post by Labsrule »

Hello Liz, to get Riley to retrieve, throw your toy or whatever you use, once he has run and picked it up, get down on the floor and encourage him to come to you but DONT take the toy away from him. Make a huge fuss of him while he still has the toy in his mouth, run your hands down his sides and really praise him. With a treat in your hand ask him to drop it and then give him the treat and take the toy from him, dont give the treat until he has given you the toy. Do not grab at him or rush this, he needs to learn that when he brings something to you and puts it in your hand nice things happen, treats. This will also be the way you can get things from him that he should not have, in therory he is learning to swop things for food. He will soon get the hang of it, don't ever chase him, if he has something you don't want him to have he will quickly learn that you will chase him and that is a really exciting game for a pup but bad news for you!! I would ignore him in that situation, if you don't react he will get bored or if it is something precious, divert his attention, get his lead out or his dinner bowl or a highly prized toy. You have to be puppy aware and put everything out of his reach!! If you can get hold of a raw marrowbone from your butcher he will enjoy have a good old chew on that and it will keep him amused for ages.

You can buy toys that are mentally stimulating for dogs, have a look on the Internet or search this site. Is he working bred? Have fun, Sue.
emmabeth
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Re: he seems to be going backwards!

Post by emmabeth »

I would do two things for improving the retrieve here.

Firstly, play these games with two identical toys. Throw one, as he comes back to you and gets close, before he plays 'you cant catch me haha' with it... show him the other and see if he drops the original, then throw it and you can get the first one back.

The other thing is clicker training the retrieve using back chaining - ie you break it into stages and you teach the last stage first.

The last stage of the retrieve is to put the ball in your hand (for a smart competition style retrieve, it is to give you the ball on request, and then 'finish' by either going around behind you and sitting in the heel position, or jumping round into the sit at heel position).

So you teach this by giving the dog the ball, the dog knows you have treats so you have your hand under teh dogs mouth ready to catch the ball. Have him hold it a few seconds then click - you are clicking for him holding it right now, the fact you catch teh ball is incidental but it builds up..

Repeat that until hes sure its holding the ball and then dropping the ball into your hand that gets him his treat - then experiement with your hand in places other than under his mouth, a little to the right or the left, with you stood up or sat down.

At this stage I would reward him for holding the ball for up to 30 seconds (but start out slow, 1 second, 2 seconds etc) - once hes got that and hes pretty sure hes got to hang on to that ball, then sharpen up it landing in your hand. So at first if it falls on the floor its no big deal, its your job to catch it. As he gets better if he goofs off and tries to put the ball on the floor or wander off with it - no reward. Pack up stuff and finish and contemplate either a shorter session or a shorter duration for holding the ball.

When hes really got the hang of holding the ball until you ask, then putting it in your hand, then you can try with the ball being further away from the hand it needs to end up in. Have him get it off the floor, from a few feet away, from the other side of teh room. When you do this, go back to asking him to hold it for just a few seconds , because bringing it AND holding it AND giving it to you is a lot... so make the stages he knows easier so he can focus on the harder bit.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
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