My Poodle is Man-phobic

Share your favorite training tips, ideas and methods with other Positively members!

Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost

Post Reply
Wicket
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 11:36 pm

My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by Wicket »

My Minature Poodle has never liked men. I was in college while she was a puppy so I don't know how this phobia developed but my dad uses traditional training practices. Whenever there's an unfamiliar male in the house, she starts growling and barking with her eyes staring at him, her body is stiff and her tail is down (if it were long enough, I'm sure it would be under her legs). If the unfamiliar male approaches her, she will bark more and run away. Her barking/growling continues for a long time and sometimes will only subside when the male leaves.

I've tried to tell guys to ignore her but some, unfortunately, like to "mess" with her after they discover that she runs away when they approach or they try to force themselves on her by picking her up, ignoring her fearful body language. This could create a situation where someone could get bit. (She hasn't bitten or snapped at anyone but I worry she could fear-bite if pushed enough by being forced to "like" someone when she's distressed.)

My Poodle usually warms up to guys slowly, usually going through an awkward period until she accepts them. Does any know what to do?
Wicket
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 11:36 pm

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by Wicket »

Edit: By unfamiliar male, I mean unfamiliar to my dog. It's usually my invited guy friends that set her off.
User avatar
***Melissa***
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:30 am
Location: Mafikeng, South Africa

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Yep, it's really best to have people (unfamiliar males) ignore her.

But I do understand that, no matter what you tell some people, they just CAN'T listen :roll: (I get real b****y real quick when it comes to my dogs, so people usually listen to me - although it has cost a few friendships too, so I'm not saying that's what you should do :lol: )

Anyway, if it's someone who I knew wouldn't ignore the dog, even after I told him so, I will put the dog elsewhere while the guests are there. I don't know your set up, but maybe you could give her a frozen raw meaty bone, or a frozen kong to keep her busy with in another room, with the door closed, so the people don't have access to her.

I do realise that it can be difficult sometimes, but if the people won't listen to you, and you don't manage it, it will get worse, and someone will get bitten eventaully. Plus, imagine something you are deathly afraid of...now imagine you are forced to deal with that "thing" over and over again...how would you feel?

It's up to you to protect you dog and make her feel save. (And yes, I know it's difficult sometimes)

I do think it's important not to allow this ever to happen - either by having them ignore her, and if that's not possible, put her some place else so they can't get to her.
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
Salomé
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:52 pm

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by Salomé »

I recall Victoria dealt with this specific issue, at least twice, but I can't remember the episode names for the life of me. I think it may have been the UK ones. What I do recall is that Victoria had the unfamiliar males walk past the dog, throw it a handful of treats and continue walking. Same thing inside the house. On one walk, there were something like 5 diff. unfamiliar men do that walk-and-treat process. Several more for inside the house.

At the time, I thought how difficult it would be to line up so many strange or unfamiliar men to help one out. But it definitely worked on the dog. Perhaps you can ask any neighbors who seem like dog-lovers to help out by coming inside the house, into a room where she is, throwing treats in her direction and then walking out of the room? Is your poodle more easily agitated by males she doesn't know all the time, or just inside the house?
User avatar
Nettle
Posts: 10753
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by Nettle »

If the males you bring home are that dumb (and I do know that many otherwise reasonable men and women can be total jerks when told not to annoy or terrify an animal) they aren't good enough for you :wink: but most of all they are doing something unforgivable to your dog. She may not have bitten YET but if she ever crosses that divide -

So she should never be put in that position.

So if you are bringing a new chap home, have your dog safe somewhere he can't get at her, whether or not he is a cretin.

Better yet, you go to their houses until you know they are okay.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
User avatar
Nettle
Posts: 10753
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by Nettle »

Salome, your advice is sound if the people are okay, but a worse job is done when the dog starts to be de-sensitised and is then traumatised. Then she loses trust in her owner and herself, and that first bite comes nearer.

So - if she was frightened of men, that would be good advice. But as she is having to deal with men that come into her house and then scare the bejasus out of her, this isn't the time to try and kid her that strange men are okay.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Doglover42
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Florida

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by Doglover42 »

Just in case you want to know about the episode
its with a jack russel terrier named Toby that bites any man who walks through the gate with the slight exception of his owner!
Wicket
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 11:36 pm

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by Wicket »

Thank you for all your responses. After writing my OP, I realize how disrespectful my guy friends are being to me, and my dog. There's definitely one in particular that I'm going have to talk to. I believe the problem is they don't believe that dogs can having psychological problems and that they can fix it for me because what I'm doing is the problem. Usually when the guy is holding her, her body is stiff, her eyes are wide and she's trying to pull herself out of his grip while the guy has this triumph grin on his face that he "fixed" the problem.
Salome, your advice is sound if the people are okay, but a worse job is done when the dog starts to be de-sensitised and is then traumatised. Then she loses trust in her owner and herself, and that first bite comes nearer.

So - if she was frightened of men, that would be good advice. But as she is having to deal with men that come into her house and then scare the bejasus out of her, this isn't the time to try and kid her that strange men are okay.
I've suggested offering cookies (since she's highly food motivated) which the guys will comply with. After a few cookies, she's tentatively sniffing the air and then their shoes, which is when some guys think this is a great time to try picking her up and attempt to grab her as I'm protesting. Sometimes I don't know if this is going to happen: I leave to get something and find my whale-eyed Poodle in his hands.

I used the cookie/ignore method when my bf first met her and gradually, she grew to like him. She paws at his leg to have him pick her up and sometimes does happy turns when he first comes in. It does work but Nettle is right, it's not fair to my dog that she gets traumatized by some guys whom get their kicks by frightening her more. I'm definitely going to have manage this situation. The Kong idea sounds great.
Is your poodle more easily agitated by males she doesn't know all the time, or just inside the house?
I'd say it's worse in the house or near our property. On walks, she's mostly okay, distracted by sniffing and getting exercise. If a guy and his dog gets too close or is behind her, her tail goes down and she growls low but I can re-direct her or she finds a new spot to mark. At home, her anxiety is through the roof and hyper focused on the stranger, making it harder to distract her and sometimes she will skirt away (even from me) to pick her up and take her someplace safe. Her behavior reminds me of that that rescued toy poodle in IMOTG where the house was divided between men and women and their dogs (since that poodle only liked women), except my Poodle hasn't bit yet and isn't that severely traumatized.
emmabeth
Posts: 8894
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by emmabeth »

Ach! People like that don't get to come to my house twice!

I have a similar issue with my young Tibetan terrier (no ones been dumb enough to try picking him up though, he is juuuuuuuust over the 'aww i must pick it up' sort of size fortunately)...

Hes nervous of strange men, if they stare at him and speak to him, he barks at them and will dance about barking and jumping and grabbing - he is semi excited, but also fearful and isnt sure what to do with himself and when they look at him and speak, he cant cope with that and tries to warn them off 'get away from me'.

Sadly, I allowed my *insert rude word here* Father to try offering him treats and he tried to trick him, 'come here for the treat.. and now ill touch you!' like its SO important that he gets to touch the flippin dog.... so after a few repetitions of that, Errol does NOT trust him AT ALL. (My Dad is also very unpredictable, quite a starey, gruff sort of bloke who will sit, catatonic for ages... and then leap into grumpy action which dogs find quite unnerving!)

Since then Errol has been quite distrustful of all older men especially short ones with Yorkshire accents and beards. He is markedly better with the 20 - 30 age range, without beards or particularly deep voices, and he will be friends with any woman in about 5 seconds flat.

It IS totally possible to get over this fear though, but you absolutely must prevent these particular people from being around her probably for quite some time.

No one must look at her, offer her stuff, speak to her and certainly not attempt to pick her up (poor girl she sounds as if she was rigid with fear at being picked up by that guy).

Get assertive with these people or put her in another room - I find the threat of a kick in the nuts often works!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
User avatar
Nettle
Posts: 10753
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by Nettle »

You could say "she pees all over people who pick her up" if they are the sort to try :wink:
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
emmabeth
Posts: 8894
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by emmabeth »

That is much more inspired than my 'kick em in the nuts' approach - :lol: do that, but be really serious about it as you dont want anyone picking her up and then going 'ha see she didnt pee on me'...!!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Wicket
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 11:36 pm

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by Wicket »

That might work for first-timers but not some guys whom have come to my house more than once and held her up already. In that case, kicking in the nuts might work better. :)
emmabeth
Posts: 8894
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Re: My Poodle is Man-phobic

Post by emmabeth »

Yeah, for those ones say 'do not touch my dog' and whilst you say that... THINK 'ill kick you in the wossnames'... should give you the edge you need.

Sometimes in the process of fixing our dogs issues, some friends turn out actually, to be utter idiots and we get rid of those people - which I find is a good service our dogs do us, forcing us to cast off 'toxic' people we dont need in our lives! :)
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Post Reply