When do puppies become sexually mature?

[yogismom]

I apologize if this is in the wrong category. I didn't know what category to put it in. I've read all the forums and it seems there are a lot of different opinions about whether to neuter or spay. My 5-month Pomeranian has an umbilical hernia that needs repair, and the vet said he could do that when he goes down to be neutered at about six months old. I have no intention of breeding him. The vet, and many other articles I read (including Victoria's book) list pros and cons, but the pros seem to outweigh the cons. This week he's started humping behaviors, holding arms and legs with both paws and mouthing/biting down. He's more aggressive and seems to really be going through the puppy zooms (running wildly across the yard or in the house). He's also exhibiting very crazy, dangerous behavior, like standing on his hind legs on the back of a two-inch chair ledge, that I mentioned in a previous post. I don't think that has anything to do with the sexual maturity, but more lack of fear.

I've also seen many people say a puppy should not be neutered, wait until it's a full-grown adult-- depending on the breed that is anywhere from one year to 18 months old. Why? What are the reasons for waiting? He has to have this umbilical hernia fixed and will have to be put out for that, so I think it better to have the neuter done at the same time rather than risk two surgeries (anesthesia, etc).

I'd appreciate your opinions and suggestions. I'm really confused after reading all the posts here about spaying and neutering. It seems to be a "hot" topic and I don't want to stir up any trouble. I just have no idea now what to do. I was under the impression that neutering a male will help calm them and make them less aggressive, but now I am reading that they may be harder to train and more difficult and stuck in puppyhood forever. Mixed signals!

So if one does decide to neuter their dog, when is the best time to do so? Should I have two surgeries, get the umbilical hernia fixed and then later on at a year get him neutered?

Thanks!

[Sweetie0202]

I have gotten my male dog fixed at 5 in a half months, but others will wait for when they are older. I would ask your vet about what would be the best time to get your dog fixed; as others will say wait and some will say you can do it at 5 in a half months old; so really i would ask your vet and what he thinks is best for your dog.

My thoughts, and good luck

[emmabeth]

Ask your vet how serious the umbilical hernia is - these can range from 'really not a problem, likely to have vanished by the time the pup is a year old' to 'seriously needs closing up now before a loop of bowel is trapped'.

Given your vet isnt urgently wanting your dog in to do the op right now I would suspect it is not urgent at all but DO get a second opinion there, ask them how long is safe to wait and what the risks are.

Ideally minimising the number of GA's a dog has is sensible, they are a risk no matter how low that risk is... its still there.

I personally - based on my experience and the experiences of those around me, dogs I know etc, prefer to wait until a pup is an adult. I live with a dog who was done at 6 months and hes now middle aged and STILL has problems.

Another aspect is that at 5 months your Pom is going to start behaving more like a teenager - testing his boundaries, stretching his wings. He will also enter another fear stage shortly, and neutering and the resultant drop in testosterone can mean a dramatic crash in the dogs confidence. This can mean (and with another dog of mine it DID mean) your dog suddenly goes from being a happy confident guy to being fearful and reactive to all manner of triggers.

This drop in testosterone will occur whatever age you neuter at, but for it to occur at a crucial point in a pups development, the transition from puppy to adult, can be really really difficult for the dog, and the owner to deal with. In an older dog, when you are aware that this will occur you can prepare for it and handle it properly.

Asking a vet is all well and good but unless you speak to a vet who ALSO specialises in canine behaviour/psychology - the answers you will get will be based on physical/surgical reasoning not behavioural reasoning. Vets mend broken animals, to put it in the most simplistic terms - if they choose they can then specialise in whatever they like but there is no obligation for them to do this. Just as human Drs can be General Practitioners, Surgeons, Psychiatrists.. vets have similar options... and you wouldnt seek help from a GP about Psychiatry, and you wouldnt ask a Psychiatrist about complex knee surgery!..

I dont mean that vets are bad nor that they don't know a heck of a lot (of course they do and in many cases Id rather see a vet than a GP for myself!) but behaviour, training, learning are not their usual areas of expertise - I even know vets who dont LIKE dogs or live with any..

I like to take the line of least risk - you cant stick a dogs testicles back on, but you can wait and see, you can train out and manage things like humping. Most of the issues you list are 'young dog' issues and are not related to the possession of testicles at all. I know female dogs who hump, hurtle around, climb on the furniture and test out using aggression to see what will happen (you think thats bad with a Pomeranian - try it with a 31" tall Deerhound!)..

The ONLY thing you can guarantee that neutering will achieve for a dog, is rendering him infertile and preventing him from getting testicular cancer. Anything ELSE is a maybe, a possibility, it may or may not happen. (For anyone reading this with a *****, neutering will only guarantee she cannot get pregnant or have a full pyometra.)

So - if you want to neuter your dog, wait until he/she is an adult, until you have ironed out any behaviour issues that are related to fear/anxiety/insecurity, and do so on the understanding that beyond fertility or infection/injury/cancer to the parts removed, there are NO guarantees at all!

I have absolutely nothing against neutering - I just want people to do so having understood as best they can, the options and the potential results, good and bad. If I sound a tad mad and ranty, its because I have spent 8 years fixing the problems kicked off by neutering two of my dogs, problems I was not only NOT warned about... but told categorically could NOT occur.

[Nettle]

I agree with every word of that.

Re: the umbilical hernia: if your vet is not overly concerned about it then it can wait - and if s/he is, then it is better to be done. I had a b itch with a small one that she had all her life and it never bothered her, even when pregnant. Mine is a breed that tends to die under anaesthetic so I have to keep surgery to a minimum.

There are physical and behavioural drawbacks to neutering too early ie before the dog is fully mature. Check out a paper by Laura Sanborne and also another on www.homeopathicvet.co.uk click on Resources or Articles, can't remember which it is on now, but gives a very good lowdown on the drawbacks.

For the rest, you have a puppy entering adolescence and it is usually a helter-skelter ride stay with us because we can help and we've all been there.

[yogismom]

After calling my vet about the humping and the new aggressive behaviors (mouthing-humping-challenging commands), he recommends getting him neutered. The umbilical hernia is quite small, about the size of a nickel, however the vet does think that it will grow as he grows and will eventually have to be taken care of. It's not something that may disappear as he ages. The problem is my vet said he is unable to do dogs that small and only does dogs 20 pounds or higher-- he doesn't have the equipment to neuter or give anesthesia to a dog that small. (He is currently 5.5 pounds at 5 months).

I still haven't decided what to do. I think we could probably work on the behavioral problems that go along with this, and wait until he's older to be neutered. I'm going to do more research and reading and now apparently find a vet or hospital that would be able to do it.

Does anyone know or is anyone able to calculate the size a dog may become by what weight they are at 5 months? I'm curious how big he'll get. The breeder actually told me he was a teacup-- which absolutely is not the case, and she also straight out lied about the hernia, and said it was because the other puppies were playing with him and that "It's not a hernia if that's what you're thinking." So I am unable to trust anything she's told me. In her defense, when I told her about the hernia she did offer me another dog (a female) but even in those few hours we had him, we were in love, and didn't want to just trade in our dog.

The vet also said that the pup might even be younger than she originally said because he has no adult teeth grown in at 5 months...but I find that hard to believe if he's already started humping and going through his puberty. He's also pretty big...for a five-month old puppy. Do puppies just start doing that even before they are sexually mature?

Sorry for the dumb questions. Sometimes I'm at such a loss as to what to do... I want to do everything right and I work with him every day. But there are times when I'm just clueless.

[Nettle]

You aren't clueless: you are in a difficult position where you are getting a lot of conflicting advice. This means you doing your own independent research and making your own mind up, as you don't know how competent any of your advisors are and some of them have money to make out of your indecision.

Puppy humping is not always sexual: it is pups learning adult behaviour, it feels good, it feels comforting, it is what their instinctive brain tells them to do, so they give it a try. Owners that make a fuss (not saying you do but many do) reinforce the reward in the behaviour. Owners who ignore it find it stops in its own time.

To be blunt, you haven't got any sort of behavioural problem at all. You have a young animal growing up. He can only grow up in the stages and the order and timescale his genes are programmed for. He has to do these things, and a lot of other things too. Some of them you won't like, but he still has to do them.


Again, not saying this for you but for other readers and the kind of vets that panic and scream "neuter" at the first sign of a dog being an animal - animals are what they are, not fluffy toys, furry babies or surrogate children. They have to do animal things. As they grow up, we teach them that some animal things are best not done in company (we have to do this with children too ).


Sounds as if it isn't safe for him to have surgery yet. You can take an educated guess at adult size by looking at his paws, and at the growth plates on his wrists and hocks. When these look as if they "fit" the leg, he has finished growing. No dog is fully grown at five months, but for sure if he is neutered at five months, he will grow differently from how he should (check out Laura Sanborne's article for details.).

He may indeed be younger than five months if he has not his adult teeth yet, but do Poms normally have good teeth? Some toy breeds have lousy dentition. Genes again. Can you contact some other Pom breeders? Good breeders never mind sharing information for the good of the breed.

I do sympathise with your position, but you really have a perfectly fine puppy just being a puppy; don't let anyone persuade you that he is aggressive etc.