I've just gone on a trainer's site and although I've heard this before, I never thought of it in the way the trainer and others seem to think. It's about dogs showing stress.
they say that one of the ways that stress can be shown is jumping up, biting at the lead, nipping legs and trousers! I always thought that was excitement at going for a walk. Now I'm beginning to think my dog's stressed as she always bounds around for the first few minutes of a walk tugging at the lead although she stops when I say 'no' to her. I sometimes wonder whether a little learning is a dangerous thing1
Can we overdo 'reading behaviour'?
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
I agree that there is sometimes a tendency to overanalyse.
It's good that we are now taught to recognise the signs of stress - not good when the impression is given that all stress is bad. Stress is part of life and we have and our dogs have to learn to cope. The only time we're going to be free of stress is when they nail the lid down on us.
You know your dog and whether she does what she does out of excitement or an unacceptable level of stress. No book or web site will have that insight.
Dogs often do things "just because" and we shouldn't get our knickers in a twist about it.
Pam
It's good that we are now taught to recognise the signs of stress - not good when the impression is given that all stress is bad. Stress is part of life and we have and our dogs have to learn to cope. The only time we're going to be free of stress is when they nail the lid down on us.
You know your dog and whether she does what she does out of excitement or an unacceptable level of stress. No book or web site will have that insight.
Dogs often do things "just because" and we shouldn't get our knickers in a twist about it.
Pam
We do say that if you get three behaviourists in a room, the only thing any two of them will agree upon is that the third is wrong 
Stress, excitement, whatever - as Mumdog says, is part of life, and IMO different facets of the same diamond.
Can we overdo the behaviour reading? It is very easy to get hold of the wrong end of the behavioural stick
but I think practicing does us all good. And it's fun.
Stress, excitement, whatever - as Mumdog says, is part of life, and IMO different facets of the same diamond.
Can we overdo the behaviour reading? It is very easy to get hold of the wrong end of the behavioural stick
but I think practicing does us all good. And it's fun.A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
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SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Stress can be both positive and negative. The excitement stress in anticipation of going for a walk, or confronting an unknown dog aproaching on a straight line.
Dogs have many ways they deal with stress, jumping and nipping as exhibited by yours, lip licking, excessive yawning, excessive drinking, not drinking, barking, raised hackles, etc...
When your dog exhibits an undesirable behvaior in order to affect change in that behavior you need to understand the context of that behavior to develope a successful training plan.
Dogs have many ways they deal with stress, jumping and nipping as exhibited by yours, lip licking, excessive yawning, excessive drinking, not drinking, barking, raised hackles, etc...
When your dog exhibits an undesirable behvaior in order to affect change in that behavior you need to understand the context of that behavior to develope a successful training plan.
I agree that it can be over read in some cases.
It is very important that we put what we know about dog body language to use contextually and that a certain amount of stress is necessary in life to grow, to achieve goals and learn things. But there is a big difference between a dog showing lots of stress signals in a situation or just showing one. Each dog's threshold for anxiety is different.
It is very important that we put what we know about dog body language to use contextually and that a certain amount of stress is necessary in life to grow, to achieve goals and learn things. But there is a big difference between a dog showing lots of stress signals in a situation or just showing one. Each dog's threshold for anxiety is different.
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I think it is possible to overanalyse things, certainly..even when we are 'right' about the reasoning/root cause/meanings of a certain behaviour or set of behaviours..
But its not really something I worry about at the moment, because the very VERY vast majority of dog owners still cannot even begin to correctly read their dogs (and those who do are very unsure and easily lead down the wrong path!).
Stress is just stress - it depends on how much stress and the root cause of the stress as to whether its good stress or bad stress - and then it depends on the dogs own character and life experience as to how they deal with it.
One of my dogs gets stressed doing clicker training - but he uses his stress well, and it pushes him to find new behaviours, as such he is a delight to do free shaping with.
Another shuts down, and so her learning has to be kept short, and with rewards given very very frequently so things are broken down into as many tiny little steps as possible. With lots of reward shes great but the second time she gets something wrong she switches off and cant handle it.
But its not really something I worry about at the moment, because the very VERY vast majority of dog owners still cannot even begin to correctly read their dogs (and those who do are very unsure and easily lead down the wrong path!).
Stress is just stress - it depends on how much stress and the root cause of the stress as to whether its good stress or bad stress - and then it depends on the dogs own character and life experience as to how they deal with it.
One of my dogs gets stressed doing clicker training - but he uses his stress well, and it pushes him to find new behaviours, as such he is a delight to do free shaping with.
Another shuts down, and so her learning has to be kept short, and with rewards given very very frequently so things are broken down into as many tiny little steps as possible. With lots of reward shes great but the second time she gets something wrong she switches off and cant handle it.
[quote="emmabeth"]I think it is possible to overanalyse things, certainly..even when we are 'right' about the reasoning/root cause/meanings of a certain behaviour or set of behaviours..
But its not really something I worry about at the moment, because the very VERY vast majority of dog owners still cannot even begin to correctly read their dogs (and those who do are very unsure and easily lead down the wrong path!).
Stress is just stress - it depends on how much stress and the root cause of the stress as to whether its good stress or bad stress - and then it depends on the dogs own character and life experience as to how they deal with it.
quote]
Turid Rugaas has done a lot to make us aware of calming signals and stress in our dogs but most of our dogs would lead a pretty boring life if her advice was followed to the letter.
Pam
But its not really something I worry about at the moment, because the very VERY vast majority of dog owners still cannot even begin to correctly read their dogs (and those who do are very unsure and easily lead down the wrong path!).
Stress is just stress - it depends on how much stress and the root cause of the stress as to whether its good stress or bad stress - and then it depends on the dogs own character and life experience as to how they deal with it.
quote]
Turid Rugaas has done a lot to make us aware of calming signals and stress in our dogs but most of our dogs would lead a pretty boring life if her advice was followed to the letter.
Pam
Oh undoubtedly....
But until the majority of dog owners read Turid Rugaas in favour of certain 'dog magicians'... I wont worry overly about it - and I think it would be nicer for dogs on the whole if people DID!
You will get the sort of person who frets and worries about the slightest thing and tbh, those people will do this whether they are right or wrong, and will do so in preference to actuall SORTING the problem out as well... they will always exist.
But until the majority of dog owners read Turid Rugaas in favour of certain 'dog magicians'... I wont worry overly about it - and I think it would be nicer for dogs on the whole if people DID!
You will get the sort of person who frets and worries about the slightest thing and tbh, those people will do this whether they are right or wrong, and will do so in preference to actuall SORTING the problem out as well... they will always exist.
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Ocelot0411
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My dog Ellie exhibts exactly this behaviour (albeit very infrequently now she is all grown up) and it is definately excitement in her case or excited stress if you prefer.
The only time it happens now really is when we have been playing and playing something really exciting like tuggy. She will then sometimes 'boil over' (Emmabeth's term which I like) and jump up at me and grab at my jumper or something. Obviously this is something that I don't want her to do so when she gets to this stage then I know that I have wound her up too much and we just have a time out until she settles herself down a bit. Simple as that really and not a problem in my view.
I am not sure whether or not this is a good way of doing things but Ellie and I have a lot of fun together and are quite silly, in fact silliness is something I actively encourage in her. By my reckining its just like having young children, if you wind them up and get them all excited you can't then be cross at them when they go a bit over the top.
The only time it happens now really is when we have been playing and playing something really exciting like tuggy. She will then sometimes 'boil over' (Emmabeth's term which I like) and jump up at me and grab at my jumper or something. Obviously this is something that I don't want her to do so when she gets to this stage then I know that I have wound her up too much and we just have a time out until she settles herself down a bit. Simple as that really and not a problem in my view.
I am not sure whether or not this is a good way of doing things but Ellie and I have a lot of fun together and are quite silly, in fact silliness is something I actively encourage in her. By my reckining its just like having young children, if you wind them up and get them all excited you can't then be cross at them when they go a bit over the top.
Re: Can we overdo 'reading behaviour'?
Our local TTouch practitioner (Kathy Cascade) talks about the four "F"s - the way dogs respond to stress. Fight, Flight (we all are familiar with those) Freezing and Fooling Around.suttonsue wrote:I've just gone on a trainer's site and although I've heard this before, I never thought of it in the way the trainer and others seem to think. It's about dogs showing stress.
they say that one of the ways that stress can be shown is jumping up, biting at the lead, nipping legs and trousers! I always thought that was excitement at going for a walk. Now I'm beginning to think my dog's stressed as she always bounds around for the first few minutes of a walk tugging at the lead although she stops when I say 'no' to her. I sometimes wonder whether a little learning is a dangerous thing1
What you describe above would be "fooling around". I think we cannot always avoid stress - it's part of life, it's part of learning and it's part of interactions. But there are different types of stress. There's good stress (eustress) which accompanies learning, interactions and satisfying needs and there's bad stress (distress) which interfers with learning, interaction and satisfying one's needs. It's important to look for signs of unhealthy stress, and help the dog avoid or handle it. And a dog who is "fooling around" can be just as stressed as the dog who is frozen in the corner, reacting aggressively or trying like crazy to get away. They just have a different way of expressing it.
Sandy in OK
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