Contact Training - Weeeee!

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Cheetah
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Contact Training - Weeeee!

Post by Cheetah »

Ok, I just got done with Shippo's first "Contact Training" session - but the dummy that I am, I made the contact/target item too small, and he just kept stepping over it lmao. It was just a rectangular piece of cardboard. He did start getting it toward the end and started pawing at it, which is awesome, but I need to choose something else I suppose.

I want him to be placing both paws on this thing at the end, so it has to be big enough for that - What do you guys use for a contact point during training? I know I saw a plastic frisbee being used before... but even that might be too small to start out with. Any suggestions?

Although I messed up making the contact point too small, it was fun anyway! Shippo is so smart. <3
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Eevee, 10-year-old Border Collie mix - My Heart Dog!
Ravinel Fox Magick, CGC (Shippo), 4-year-old Pembroke Welsh Corgi
dobiemuse
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Post by dobiemuse »

I've also trained "easy" which means slow down. That way when they are coming down to the target, it is easier to see. Also, you can try to direct the head downward easier when going slower. I've seen very small targets work better when the dog slows.

Hope that made sense and helps.

Btw, love the name Shippo... Inuyasha inspired? :)
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Cheetah
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Post by Cheetah »

Haha! Yes it is! I'm an Inuyasha FREAK! I loves me some Fluffy... <.<;

*cough* Um, anyway... thank you for that! Well, starting out I'm using a big target, but I do plan on moving to a smaller one once he knows what I want from him.

How did you teach the "easy"? Unfortunately, everything Shippo does is at 90 MPH lmao...
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Eevee, 10-year-old Border Collie mix - My Heart Dog!
Ravinel Fox Magick, CGC (Shippo), 4-year-old Pembroke Welsh Corgi
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Cheetah
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Post by Cheetah »

Well, here is my progress so far. I haven't connected a word yet but I did find a larger target!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adNoOohh6xU
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Eevee, 10-year-old Border Collie mix - My Heart Dog!
Ravinel Fox Magick, CGC (Shippo), 4-year-old Pembroke Welsh Corgi
ckranz
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Post by ckranz »

For agility training frequently we use small plastic lids to train contact obstacles. The target is set on the ground where the dogs nose should touch say when coming off the dog walk. The target is generally placed so the dog would have his hind legs still on the obstacle and his front paws off. This is a the 2 on 2 off contact (There are several others).

Teaching target is a simple freeshaping exercise. Simply start by holding your hand out, click and reward when your dog looks at your hand, click when your dog paws at your hand, click when your dog touches your hand with his nose.

With each click you will start to see the rewarded behaviors repeated.

Now fade out looking at your hand and touching your hand with his paws. Only reward targeting your hand.

Once your dog is regularly targeting your hand, start adding a verbal cue...your hand going into a target position is already acting as a visual cue.

Now work on 2 different exercises:
1. Target to an object in your hand
2. Change height of the target...both high and low

As he gets better:
1. Move the target out of your hand


As your dog gets better and better at targeting, begin to vary and provide intermittent rewards....some times 1 trea, sometime a handful, sometime only a "good boy". Randomize your reward schedule as much as possible just like a slot machine.
dobiemuse
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Post by dobiemuse »

I think you are doing great! Maybe you want to target nose to hand... that way you can direct him down.

How I taught easy...

When I was teaching the dogwalk, I usually had a tab on his/her collar for guidance only (be careful not to pull them off). I would have them go slowly up with the command "walk it". As we are on the dogwalk, I would slow down and guide them to slow as well while using the command "easy". Don't forget to praise. So, by going slow in the beginning, you can more easily insert that command and also start to guide the head with your open hand to the target. Hope that made sense... I have a cold and my head is fuzzy. Plus, I never really had to think about it and break it up before. :)

Also, I would suggest doing jumpers courses a lot. It really helped me to learn my body positioning. The dog will learn to read your body language and you have to make sure it isn't just where your hand is pointing but also your body that the dog reads. You dog will also learn to listen to you more in a jumpers course since it looks pretty much the same. I would start this training when you feel he is starting to listen to you pretty well.

One note of caution... break up what you teach your dog. Do different things a lot. Use the good treats on all things. I mistakenly concentrated on one object too much with my sheltie. She loved it so much I had to argue with my club leader what was going on. He kept saying it was my body language pulling her toward it... I knew it wasn't. He wasn't convinced until I told him I would swear he was right, but watch me. We ran and she ducked BEHIND me (my WHOLE body was pointing straight ahead) and took the obstacle. He had to eat his words. :lol: Although she was an unusual dog and it could have just been her quirk. :)

Good luck.
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Post by dobiemuse »

Btw, would love to have a kitty and name her Kirara (I believe that it how it is spelled), but she'd be a malamute toy and I don't want her to suddenly become big and scare the mal to death! :)

Even my mom is a huge fan on Inuyasha. :)
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Cheetah
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Post by Cheetah »

Shippo already knows how to touch my hand with his nose. This seems to be turning out like every other thing I've taught him in that 10 different people have told me 10 different ways to train it lol. Unfortunately, I have to choose only one or I'll confuse him. I'm training him how to target the way I saw it trained in a short Karen Pryor video. I figure if it's Karen Pryor, there can't be anything wrong with the methods. >O.o<
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Eevee, 10-year-old Border Collie mix - My Heart Dog!
Ravinel Fox Magick, CGC (Shippo), 4-year-old Pembroke Welsh Corgi
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Cheetah
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Post by Cheetah »

I will have to try the "easy/slow" training once I get to that point. Thanks Dobie.

Also, I notice you are also in CO! I think you're the first person I've met on this forum from CO!
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Eevee, 10-year-old Border Collie mix - My Heart Dog!
Ravinel Fox Magick, CGC (Shippo), 4-year-old Pembroke Welsh Corgi
dobiemuse
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Post by dobiemuse »

Yep, I'm in CO. SW end. You can go to a page I made http://www.squidoo.com/coloradoagility There should be a link there to a yahoo group on CO agility.

If you compete, send me a PM. If I'm able to be there, it would be nice to meet some good people. Plus, I love introducing my dobie to good dogs when I can.

My dobie isn't ready for full agility yet. He is just at a year and with his size I should wait until he is 2 for full growth so I don't damage him in any way. Plus I'm looking for a good place to train. I think I may have found one, but I still have to check it out.

Hey, I just thought... I also do this. When I'm walking I'll slow down and say "easy" as well. I think it teaches the dog to watch you.

Like I said, I think you are doing great in target training. I wouldn't say do anything different. Keep up the good work!
ckranz
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Post by ckranz »

Since we are talking agility contacts there are several different contact behaviors that I have seen in competition. The most common is 2 on 2 off, which based on your description I assume you are trying to train.

I only use the 2o2o contact on the teeter and dogwalk. The a-frame I use a running contact (or at least that is what we are training towards).

Basically I trianed my dog to seek the contact plate (a plasict lid) and put his nose in it. This issue I am having is when I go to reward the contact his backend slips off the contact.

My other dog uses a different contact on all 3 contact obstacles which is working quite well with him. Rather than having his head down for the typical 2o2o I have train him to sit at the end of the contact, and hold until released. (If you think there are lots of methods for training contacts wait until weave pole training :) LOL.
dobiemuse
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Post by dobiemuse »

There is a method where you train "backward". I know I had an article of the specifics somewhere... but you might already know of it. I remember reading that it helps dogs with the hiney problem. :)

The best method I've found for the weaves is to have a dog that loves it more than anything else. She wasn't a good agility dog and I usually only entered her into it just for fun and not competition. She loved the applause and the attention it got her for doing the weaves so well. :)
mum24dog
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Post by mum24dog »

dobiemuse wrote: When I was teaching the dogwalk, I usually had a tab on his/her collar for guidance only (be careful not to pull them off). I would have them go slowly up with the command "walk it". As we are on the dogwalk, I would slow down and guide them to slow as well while using the command "easy".
I wouldn't teach a dog to do contacts slowly, but that's from the perspective of someone in the UK where speed is important, as opposed to getting round clear within the course time.
A slow clear here gets you nothing other than a point or two towards an Agility Warrant, and you need 200 points to get even the lowest Bronze level.

You might get away with starting slowly and building in speed later if you have a really driven dog, but if not you run the risk that if you teach slow and steady that's what you'll get.

The aim is to get the dog to want to get to the end of the contact as fast as possible and into the position you want from it. Targetting is intended to build in the desire of the dog to work towards the target and backchaining is a good way to do it.
Once the dog is keen to hit the target away from the contact equipment, then start with the dog on the end of the contact hitting the target. Gradually move the dog further back up the down plank and eventually do the whole obstacle.

Start on the dog walk, then the A frame will be easier. Start with the A frame low so the dog doesn't have to worry too much about body control at a steep angle.

If using a target (and it isn't essential) I would use a piece of perspex that can be cut down in size as you want to fasde it out. Being transparent, it is less obvious to the dog when it disappears, if you get what I mean. If the dog needs something more visible, a piece of card or carpet would do.

Position depends entirely on the dog. For our collie its 2o2o off on all contacts but for our smaller mongrel it's running A frame and DW in competition (2o2o DW in training to stop her bouncing on the down plank) and 4on the seesaw.

Pam
mum24dog
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Post by mum24dog »

dobiemuse wrote: When I was teaching the dogwalk, I usually had a tab on his/her collar for guidance only (be careful not to pull them off). I would have them go slowly up with the command "walk it". As we are on the dogwalk, I would slow down and guide them to slow as well while using the command "easy".
I wouldn't teach a dog to do contacts slowly, but that's from the perspective of someone in the UK where speed is important, as opposed to getting round clear within the course time.
A slow clear here gets you nothing other than a point or two towards an Agility Warrant, and you need 200 points to get even the lowest Bronze level.

You might get away with starting slowly and building in speed later if you have a really driven dog, but if not you run the risk that if you teach slow and steady that's what you'll get.

The aim is to get the dog to want to get to the end of the contact as fast as possible and into the position you want from it. Targetting is intended to build in the desire of the dog to work towards the target and backchaining is a good way to do it.
Once the dog is keen to hit the target away from the contact equipment, then start with the dog on the end of the contact hitting the target. Gradually move the dog further back up the down plank and eventually do the whole obstacle.

Start on the dog walk, then the A frame will be easier. Start with the A frame low so the dog doesn't have to worry too much about body control at a steep angle.

If using a target (and it isn't essential) I would use a piece of perspex that can be cut down in size as you want to fasde it out. Being transparent, it is less obvious to the dog when it disappears, if you get what I mean. If the dog needs something more visible, a piece of card or carpet would do.

Position depends entirely on the dog. For our collie its 2o2o off on all contacts but for our smaller mongrel it's running A frame and DW in competition (2o2o DW in training to stop her bouncing on the down plank) and 4on the seesaw.

Pam
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