Fear Aggression and Reactivity

[RxB]

Hello! I'm new to the forum, I have worked in rescue centres for the past few years, and have a rescue Staffordshire Bull Terrier cross. She's a wonderful, kind and calm little girl and the light of my life! I don't know much about her background as she was a stray, but came to me with severe mastitis, scarring to her body and skin cancer. Luckily with surgery, we removed all of her tumours and 2 years later she's fit and healthy! She had no training and was aggressive towards men and dogs on arrival, as well as having an extremely high prey drive and an urge to chase and grab anything with wheels.

Two years and lots of training later she can now walk safely in public, and we have moved house so that we're in a quieter area for her to relax in. We've worked so hard with her aggression and she is now very friendly with visitors, and will sit by their feet waiting to be fussed. She has 5 permanent doggy friends, and has allowed me to foster many other dogs, sharing her home without issue. She has learnt to sit, lie down, give paw, wait, stay (and will stay in one spot whilst you leave the room thanks to hide and seek!) walk to heel, play dead, roll over, drop, leave, come, watch me and "enough" for when play with other dogs is getting a little too heated. I muzzle her in public as she can forget herself sometimes, and if surprised (by somebody coming up behind me for example) will still react, though in general she now walks past people very well, and has a safe distance with dogs, so I can keep her focus and attention from far enough away.

Our problem is, I would assume that Biscuit was never socialized as a puppy and she just cannot cope with unknown dogs or men approaching her when on a walk. We have been using the bandanas form the yellow dog project, but the amount of people with out of control dogs who think it's okay to let their dog run up to, and jump on us is unreal. This scares her and sets her back months of work every time it happens. We try to walk in quiet areas and mix with her dog friends as much as possible, but she's just never been able to cope with the "meet and greet" and will lie on the floor protecting her tummy, lunging and barking if they get too close. We manage this, but I'm just wondering if anybody else has experience of this behaviour, and had any insight to offer? I've tried giving an alternative command, and watch me works well at her safe distance, but if they get closer she gets to stressed and is just unable to concentrate on anything other than the present threat.

[Sabrina]

Hi there! Welcome!

but the amount of people with out of control dogs who think it's okay to let their dog run up to, and jump on us is unreal.

This is unfortunately a very wide-spread problem. My own little dog an I have been "charged" too many times (in my neck of the woods, usually from dogs who've escaped the house/broken the tie-out ). As often as possible my husband walks with us, as it's so much easier for him to head off the charging dog and me to pick up Charley and get him to safety.

"Meet and greet" with unknown dogs is something I do everything possible to avoid. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6123

So, the problem for owners like us is that we can't trust strangers to be in control of their dogs and respect our dogs' need for space by keeping their dogs at a safe distance.

Once Biscuit is no longer able to focus on you, then like you said she's too close to the danger of the strange dog. The thing to do is to figure out how to get her the distance she needs to feel safe. Depending on your situation - Can you walk at a different time of day when you'd be less likely to encounter other dogs? Bring another trusted adult along to help block charging dogs? Drive to a quiet park?

Personally: I try to walk at "off-peak" times of day; if I see a stranger/dog I will cross the street/go in a different direction/etc; if surprised by a stranger/dog in close quarters, I put myself physically between my dog and the threat and exit the situation asap.

Are the dogs charging you off-leash or on? Are the owners nearby? If owners are near and you yell (in a firm, controlled voice) for them to call off their dog, what happens? If you stand in between your dog and the charging dog, will the charging dog back off or just try to circle around you?

Fill us in with some more details - like I said, unfortunately this is all too common of a problem, and with a better understanding of what is happening folks will be able to offer you advice better tailored to your situation. Hang in there! You are such a caring owner, Biscuit is lucky to have you!

[Nettle]

Welcome to the forum and well done for all your work with Biscuit.

Your experiences with bad-mannered dogs are ours too. My dogs are well-socialised and have been with me all their lives. Nevertheless each walk I take is an exercise in avoiding other people's dogs. If I manage a walk where we have not been charged or had to fend off some other potential attack, it was a good walk.

We can train our dogs all we like, but we can't train people to be polite with theirs. Therefore - sadly - it's up to us to protect our own. So I'm posting this to assure you that you are NOT alone and it is a big problem for all of us who have to walk our dogs in public places.

[mansbestfriend]

Hi RxB, Ditto the kudos. It sounds like you have many 'problem' situations sorted, and it sounds like we live in parallel universes dog-wise. My dog is KelpieXStaffie and a few years older. Motor mowers, vacuum cleaners, whipper snippers, bikes, skateboards are now not a problem (due to counter-conditioning and calmness/confidence building with Positive Reinforcement training). With so many variables, meeting strange people and strange dogs is a work-in-progress and depends on individual meetings. When in doubt, it's easier for us to just change course/distract/play/practise obedience or tricks/whatever, to avoid a confrontation and build-up of stress level/s.

If interested, try Google something like "how adrenalin affects dog behaviour". With my excitable, fear aggressive/the best defense is a good offense, rescued KelpieXStaffie, management is best for her remaining few triggers. Exercise, teaching obedience and trick behaviours with R+, informal agility, running, walking, playing, and resting is helpful (for us), as well as specifically reinforcing calm behaviour, TTouch, massage, and structured walking. Good luck.

[RxB]

Hello! Thank you so much for your kind welcomes and in depth replies. Sorry that you've all been in similar circumstances, but it's lovely to know that your dogs are protected from the stresses of the world by caring and empathetic owners. I'll try to reply to each question asked and give you some more details.

We moved to a little suburb about a five minute drive from Dartmoor national park, so much quieter than the city centre that I was living in when I adopted little Biscuit, as she just couldn't cope with how busy it was there and her stress brings me stress! We have some wonderful walks here, unfortunately because I don't have my driving license we only walk on the moors when my partner isn't away, usually once or twice a week. Other walks are in 5 acres of farmland about a 10 minute walk from our house and we generally don't see anybody on these walks, we were walking in the gigantic woodland behind our house (around 6 hours + of walking there) but unfortunately there's a very irresponsible "professional" dog walker that walks between 15-20 off lead dogs there at a time, the trails are quite narrow and I've received various threats from her after asking her to get her dogs under control because they were scaring my dog; she doesn't pick up after her dogs and allows them to chase wildlife too. I can only assume that the £200 a day that she earns for walking these dogs has clouded her logic, but she has warned me to avoid the woods when she's walking there and frankly, I would never willingly put Biscuit in that situation. The out of control dogs are always of lead and if I ask owners to put their dogs on a lead whilst I pass I usually get the "my dog is friendly" or "devil dog" comments and stares, with refusal to get their dog under control. I've certainly grown a thicker skin since walking with a reactive bull breed!

I also walk at off-peak times; generally Biscuit will have a 1.5-2 hour walk between 12-2pm and then I'll try and squeeze another lead walk in late at night. If I see dogs approaching in the street I cross the road, or do a U-turn and treat her from afar when they walk past. As long as she's in her safe distance (roughly about 3 metres away) she can focus (trying to lessen the distance but in baby steps) but if we're caught off guard she will lie on the floor and stare, she tends to retaliate first, if that makes sense! Very typical terrier! She's fearful but fiery, which can be a tough combination as i'm sure many have experienced! If they walk past and don't look at her she will just stay still on the floor with big wide eyes and a closed mouth, if they try to interact she will go into a barking frenzy and take a while to recover, I try to keep her moving when dogs are passing as the stillness seems to add to the tension, but if I don't catch her in time she will refuse to budge and cannot bear to turn her back on the threat (understandably) so I just generally apologise, explain that we're in training and try to defuse the situation as best as possible.

Currently we walk for 1.5-2 hours on a general day of off lead with river swimming too, and two of those walks are with her little Chihuahua friend that I walk for an elderly lady across the road, but we have been known to walk 10-15 miles across the moors on days off. She is fed nature diet as we currently don't have a freezer to feed raw, but gets bones and trotters etc from the butchers for chewing (that release just leaves her more floppy and relaxed then I've ever known her!) and is fed in her kong for usual meals to keep her little mind ticking over. We general do 10-15 minutes of obedience/trick training a few times a day (teaching her to differentiate between objects at the moment) and also keep her routine as similar as possible as she's very, very sensitive and doesn't cope well with change. Agility i'd love to try but we have a small garden and I'm unsure that she would cope with a group session.

Sorry about such a long post! Would you say that we are doing it right? The part that I find hardest is diffusing her when she's already burst into a frenzy (doesn't happen often, only when we walk around a corner and are immediately faced with another dog, for example) she is then stressed for the rest of her walk so we usually go home, chill for an hour or so and then try again.

This is the little one by the way, I think she may be mastiff cross (she weighs in at about 23kg and is quite athletic looking, not overweight) but maybe just a bit staffie!!

[JudyN]

I haven't any advice to give I'm afraid, but it sounds to me like you are a wonderful owner who is doing absolutely everything you can (including moving house!) to help your dog - and you obviously understand and can read her very well Respect!

[marie estey]

There's an awesome book out there called click to calm. It's all about fear and reactive/ aggressive dog training. I took a training class and this book was a required read. I suggest you look into it it was written by a dog trainer with a fear based nervous aggressive dog.

[ClareMarsh]

I can't stop looking at her shoulders, she's so buff

I have two long coated chihuahuas. They're relaxed, confident dogs but I'm pretty sure this is down to the fact that I manage which dogs they meet etc etc. This, of course, means I have the same problems you do regarding people with out of control dogs/rude dogs /rude owners etc etc So you have my sympathy.

I wonder whether it is worth reporting the dog walker to the local dog warden/council. Although the response is going to vary depending on the quality of your warden if not one ever reports her nothing is going to happen. I also can't believe that people trust her to walk their dogs that many at a time, there are so many things that could go wrong, I'd even be worried she'd forget one somewhere along the way

[bendog]

rresponsible "professional" dog walker that walks between 15-20 off lead dogs there at a time, the trails are quite narrow and I've received various threats from her after asking her to get her dogs under control because they were scaring my dog; she doesn't pick up after her dogs and allows them to chase wildlife too

I would be asking about her insurance. I have never found a dog walking insurance that allows more than 6 dogs to be walked together at one time. Definitely report her if possible.

[DianeLDL]

Biscuit is beautiful. Who is the other dog in the lady's lap? Looks like the two of them get along well.

Great that you were able to move out of the city. We have a chihuahua mi. Who is extremely reactive and have kept him out of major cities, too. He is also more comfortable in the country,

As to the dog walker who has 20 odd dogs all off leash, I agree with the others, especially Bendog who is also a dog walker and knows the rules and regulations. I am jot familiar with UK rules.

It is horrendous, but I believe she has been doing it for so long like this and you being a newcomer, she could cause trouble for you if she finds out it is you who reports her. A fine line there.

I would find another area for walking. No reason to stress out Biscuit and yourself.

Diane

[RxB]

Thanks so much for your lovely comments! She's a very pretty little thing, just the sweetest temperament too! She's clearly had a LOT of puppies and just mothers anything and everything, I often took hand rear puppies and kittens home from the shelter and she would sleep by their little crates all night! The other dog in the photo is a Yorkie cross called Wookie, she's known him since he came home at 8 weeks and just adores him, she seems to take to small dogs much faster as they're less threatening perhaps? And is generally fine with other Staffies too, but as she has been bred from so much i'd imagine she has been around other staffies, perhaps even lived with them? She has a labrador and collie cross friend also, not so keen on the lab because he has no manners but tolerates him to play with the collie who she really likes, he's quite shy as he was a stray from Ireland, so also less threatening I suppose. She's a very sensitive little soul!

Have had a look into the click to calm book and it looks great, will be buying that when I get some money. I've also read a lot by Patricia McConnell and found her fiesty fido and cautious canine books helpful. I very much doubt that the dog walker is doing things legitimately, her van is unmarked and she doesn't advertise. It would seem that she's been doing it for a while though as she has a lot of clients and has said "i'm friend's with everyone in the area so it's you against us" basically. All a little tedious, just a shame that I can't go to the woods as Biscuit loves all the hedges and smells, and swimming in the river!

[JudyN]

The dog walker sounds horrible... but would you be able to agree with her times when she isn't there when you could walk Biscuit? It can make such a difference to have a place to walk where both you and she can be relaxed and happy.

If there are rules in the area about picking up dog poo you could have a word with the local dog warden. That many dogs must leave a fair bit of evidence.