Jealous dog

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maswingle
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:35 am

Jealous dog

Post by maswingle »

I have a neutered female dog, Missy, I rescued 4 years ago who I assume is most likely a rat terrier. I have never been able to completely housebreak her AND she has always attacked and chased away any of my cats who try to sit on my lap or receive attention. A year ago my niece and her then 1 year old daughter moved in with me and Missy is very jealous of any attention I give to the child. If the child gets on my lap Missy tries to nip her. I can lift her up and then Missy jumps on the other side of my lap and I have to watch that the child does not reach near Missy or Missy will nip her. The child has never been aggressive towards Missy, but now that the child is 2 she wants to play with the dog despite now having been nipped 4 times. If the child has food Missy will nip her to get a piece - therefore I do not let the child wander with food but her mother is now to the point that she wants the dog gone. Between peeing and pooping frequently inside - even when she has just been outside - and the nipping of the child we are both at wits end. I do not know exactly how to train the dog because if I push her off my lap when the child is there or if Missy growls then I am afraid that the dog will resent the child more and not growl in warning. As for the cats, Missy just growls or jumps up and the cats run so I do not have control over them to train the dog. Any ideas? It would break my heart to rehome the dog but her quality of life is not good due to these behaviour problems.


I see that my post is getting read - doesn't anyone have any advice?
maswingle
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:35 am

Re: Jealous dog

Post by maswingle »

I can see that many have viewed my problem - doesn't anyone have any ideas what to do? I really do not want to re-home my dog.
jakesmom
Posts: 459
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:35 pm

Re: Jealous dog

Post by jakesmom »

Hi Maswingle

There has been so much spam on here recently and that's probably why no-one has replied.

I'm sure the trainers will be along very shortly, but in the meantime please look through the 'Dog Training Articles' . You'll find plenty of information especially on toilet training and it does work.

I would put Missy out of the room when the child is walking about, as small children love to mess with dogs, and as Missy clearly doesn't like it you will need to keep them seperated or very well supervised.

As for the cats it's probably best to keep a lead on Missy if the cats are about so you can remove her or hold her to stop her chasing the cats or make sure the cats have a safe place to escape to.

Sorry that's not much help, but I'm sure others will give you much better advice soon.
chay
Posts: 352
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:58 pm

Re: Jealous dog

Post by chay »

hi maswingle,

i just wanted to post to say don't get disheartened by a lot of views but no replies - aside fromt he spam as jakesmom mentions, many people like myself browse this board regularly but as we're not professional trainers or folk with much experience, refrain from commenting or offering advice

if you can give alot more information about missy's day that would give them more to go on - include everything you can, exercise / food / when and where she sleeps / what training you have tried with her before and for how long, etc etc

before the trainers get here, i will add some of my thoughts:
- personally, i think 2 years old is far too young for the child to be allowed to have any interaction with this dog, if she's got to the point of being nipped 4 times she ins't being supervised close enough. the dog has told you before she doesn't appreciate the child's advances so you need to respect her and either give her space to get away, or keep them separated at all times by using babygates. children can be very disconcerting for dogs (they smell funny, move in unpredictable ways, don't pay attention to dog non-verbal cues (they can think a snarl is similar to a human smile!) etc etc). its unreasonable of the mother to just expect the dog to put up with an already small dog being walked over by a rude (in terms of dog language!) small and VERY awkward human.

- being a rat (or some sort of) terrier she is genetically driven to chase small furries, so she may not ever come to love your cats...as per jakesmom, if you can have a houselead on her ready to separate her if she looks chasey and redirect her to something you WANT her to do instead, give her a big stuffed kong to distract her, etc


i'm sure the others will be along shortly, for the meantime if you haven't already head over and browse through the 'articles' section, there's some great stuff in there :)
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Mattie
Posts: 5872
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:21 am

Re: Jealous dog

Post by Mattie »

Sorry there has been so much spam on here recently that a lot of posts have been missed.
maswingle wrote:I have a neutered female dog, Missy, I rescued 4 years ago who I assume is most likely a rat terrier. I have never been able to completely housebreak her
For toilet training her have a look at viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6125 it does work, the more consistant you are the quicker she will learn.
AND she has always attacked and chased away any of my cats who try to sit on my lap or receive attention.


I don't have cats, can't with my dogs, someone else will be able to help with this.
A year ago my niece and her then 1 year old daughter moved in with me and Missy is very jealous of any attention I give to the child. If the child gets on my lap Missy tries to nip her. I can lift her up and then Missy jumps on the other side of my lap and I have to watch that the child does not reach near Missy or Missy will nip her. The child has never been aggressive towards Missy, but now that the child is 2 she wants to play with the dog despite now having been nipped 4 times. If the child has food Missy will nip her to get a piece - therefore I do not let the child wander with food but her mother is now to the point that she wants the dog gone.
Many dogs are frightened of children this age because they are unpredictable, I would give Missy a meaty bone or frozen stuffed Kong in another room so I could give the child attention. Young children and dogs don't mix very well.

As for your niece, it is your house, your dog, she is living with you not you living with her, she may contribute to the bills or not, that has nothing to do with me, but she has no say in who or what you have in your home. She is welcome to live with you but it is on your terms not her's. If in the next year or 2 she moved out, you will be left without your much loved dog and will have a lot of regrets. My sons tried to force me to get rid of my horse, within 3 years they left home, if I had done what they wanted I would have had nothing.
Between peeing and pooping frequently inside - even when she has just been outside - and the nipping of the child we are both at wits end.
Your dog is stressed, is the child left in a room with Missy even for 2 minutes while someone runs to another room to pick something up and back again. That is all it takes for a child to hurt a dog, you haven't seen it so don't know it has happened. This is why we say never leave a child and dog alone especially one her age.

The toileting in the house is a training issue, if you follow the directions in that thread she will be clean soon. You have to be very consistant, no waiting until you have finished a job, she has to go out to toilet.
I do not know exactly how to train the dog because if I push her off my lap when the child is there or if Missy growls then I am afraid that the dog will resent the child more and not growl in warning. As for the cats, Missy just growls or jumps up and the cats run so I do not have control over them to train the dog. Any ideas? It would break my heart to rehome the dog but her quality of life is not good due to these behaviour problems.

Children have to be trained as well as dogs, also you need to manage quite a few things like if the child wants to come onto your knee and the dog is there, get up and get a frozen Kong to give her, preferably in another room. The food inside the Kong should be part of her daily food. You are then free to have the child on your knee.

The child also needs to learn that the dog is off limits, she is not to approach the dog under any circumstances unless she asks you first. This can be done, I did it with my children. My dog also had a safe place to go, my sons were taught that if she was in her basket they had to keep clear of her. This dog used top play a lot with my sons and was always with them.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
maswingle
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:35 am

Re: Jealous dog

Post by maswingle »

Thanks to all of you for replying. I needed some of the reinforcement regarding how to treat the child and the dog.

In terms of her day:

She sleeps with me and when I get up she stays with me while I get ready for work. I then take her downstairs and clip her on a 15' lead so she can smell and go potty while I stay with her. When I let her in she runs around and then comes to her "pen" where I put in her food and fresh water. The pen is a child gate about 3' X 3' and I have her crate in there with the door open and a pillow and fluffy towel. Just outside the crate is a puppy pad in case she needs to go and her food is over on the side of the crate. I did have the pen larger but she did not use the space, preferring to be in her crate rather than in the pen. She sleeps most of the morning while my niece and the 2 year old go about their day.

I cannot get my niece to walk the dog, but she will put her out on the lead with water and let her stay outside for an hour or two - less if it is too hot or cold - then she puts her back in the pen and lets her out again about 5PM. When I get home at about 6:30 we eat dinner and leave her in the pen so she doesn't jump on the 2 yr old for food. When we are through I take her outside and stay with her until she goes potty and then she comes upstairs with me while I shower and get ready to relax.

It is this time that is difficult because the 2 yr old wants my attention, the cats want my attention and Missy wants my attention. None of them are willing to share. Missy will growl if she is on my lap and I pickup the 2yr old - or even come to jump on my lap if she sees me picking her up. But once the child is settled on my left side, Missy will lay on my right side and even sleep without a problem - until I lower the child and she growls again.

Once the 2 yr old goes to bed - about 7:45 - Missy has the run of the downstairs and typically chases the cats off and on and wants to be let out continually so she can monitor and bark at any neighbors. We live in condos so our patches of yard are small and without fences - about 20' wide by 30' long with a sidewalk at the end and then another strip of land. As Missy has a strong prey drive I need to keep the lead short of the sidewalk or she runs up and tries to nip the few people that do walk by.

Typically about 9:30 she is tired and falls asleep on my lap until we go to bed where she sleeps all night.

On weekends I try to balance the amount of time in the pen according to the 2 year old. They are typically gone a lot to visit on play dates etc. so Missy gets a lot more time out.

Prior to my niece I had a dog walker but she quit and no one in my neighborhood wants to walk Missy. The only other person she truly accepts besides me is her original dog walker who takes care of her when I am out of town at holidays. She is not welcome at my relatives' homes because she barks incessantly at their dogs and is not comfortable. If I have visitors she barks like crazy at first, but once they sit and talk she usually tries to sit on their laps and enjoys getting petted. But if they reach their fingers down when they first arrive she will nip.

I do realize that she does not get enough exercise - I am gone almost 12 hrs a day and that is why I never got a dog. But she was picked up off the street by a neighbor with blood around her neck and it looked like she had puppies despite being about 6 months old. They were taking her to the ASPCA who would have put her down due to the blood etc and they told me I could not monitor her situation so I would never know what happened to her. Also, it was the neighbors' decision. So I claimed her and took her to the vets for neutering etc. thinking it would be better than her being euthanized.

I have trained her with sit, stay, off (for the cats) but if there is something she deems more exciting she ignores me. I have bad knees that have worsened these past two years so I cannot walk her as much and I have never been able to get her to ignore other people or dogs. Even with treats in front of her nose she goes after them. I have tried the turn and go the other way when she pulls or lunges but even after about 20 turns she is still lunging and pulling. Without other people and animals I can keep her on the leash walking next to me.

She has absolutely no interest in balls or fetch or laser dots. She doesn't even like to pull on socks or toys.

I have never trusted the baby with the dog alone or if she has food - the first 3 nips happened when my niece let the baby loose with snacks. The last nip was on my watch. I went to throw away a diaper and in less than 45 seconds the 2 yr old must have tried to touch or do something to Missy because her hand did get nipped. That taught me not to turn my back for a second.

So, taking into account your recommendations, I will keep her on a leash inside when she is trying to chase cats. The 2 yr old will not be allowed on my lap when the dog is there. If I put the dog off of my lap I will give her a Kong with treats. I am getting treatments for my knees so I should be able to do more walking. To get her to stop barking and lunging at the neighbors walking on the sidewalk, should I give them treats and ask them to throw them to her when they walk by? I think it would help but the ones who do it the most are 3 girls about 12 yrs old and I do not want to give them a false sense of security. I will also read the toilet training and start from scratch.

Thank you all again. I was feeling so guilty not putting the child first, but they will not be with me forever and I do not think I could live with myself if I gave Missy up. You have allowed me to not feel selfish. Thanks.
ladybug1802
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:39 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Jealous dog

Post by ladybug1802 »

I agree with Mattie about the fact that it is your house, and your neice has moved in with YOU....therefore she has no right to even ask you to get rid of your dog, that you have had for 4 years! Sorry, but far too many people think that dogs are disposable (I dont mean you by any means...you are trying your hardest to fix the problems!)....would they get rid of their child if another child fought with it? Your neice should be looking for somewhere else to live if she feels this strongly about the dog.

I would keep the dog and child separate. I woul;d never ever let my dog near young children....he is not used to them AND is scared of strangers, so the combination would be way too much for him and of course he is likely to snap and react. But I would never ever get rid of him. So put up baby gates and segregate them.

And dont feel guilty for 'not putting the child first''....she is not your child and the dog is yours,.....therefore I think you are 100% correct to put your dog first, especially withher rough life she had before you! In fact you are being far mroe tolerant of your neice's attitude than I would I'm afraid! :D
emmabeth
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Re: Jealous dog

Post by emmabeth »

Absolutely do NOT feel selfish, this is your dog, your home, YOUR life.

You are being kind and generous in providing your niece and her child somewhere to stay and just because they are family does NOT mean you change your life drastically for her - if SHE feels her child is at risk it is up to her to remove her child from the environment, not up to YOU to get rid of your dog! She'd be straight out of the door if she was at my house I can tell you!

At this stage I would not be asking strangers (to your dog) to be interacting with her at all, at the moment your dog is convinced rightly or wrongly that lunging and shouting at people is THE thing to do. Shes likely so stressed she wouldn't notice food being thrown and its a risk you don't need to take just yet, and you are right that with children,they may feel safer than they really are.

What I would do is take her out very early morning and very late at night, for just five or ten minutes, somewhere there is NO ONE around, and just practice walking up and down and the about turn method. It will not work in just one walk and there is no point n trying to walk TO somewhere or round a set route, because you will fail, feel awful and demoralised.

Howeverif you set out to JUST complete ten minutes worth of training, and not get to anywhere or round any route, and avoid people, you will easily succeed and feel much better. THat will also help her, the more success she has the better for you both. It is also pretty hard work concentrating on you for a full ten minutes (much harder than dragging you aroudn the roads and yelling at folk for half an hour or so!) so you will see very quickly a big difference in her behaviour over a matter of weeks of doing this.

Chasing cats is a difficult topic, much like interacting with children because it depends so very much on the cats behaviour, as well as the dogs. Again as with children I think here managing the issue so she has little opportunity to chase them, and they have plenty of chance to escape is the best plan.

Do you have a crate for her and if so can she be crated for short periods. If not, get a crate - make this a fun place to be, feed her Kong toys and similar food dispensing toys in there and you can split up her meal portions into kongs rather than feeding her from a bowl twice a day, so that shes got to work for her meals (more satisfying and mroe tiring) and she has something to do when you are busy, the child is around or you have to pop out of the room.

Even if shes crated do not leave the child in the same room as her - little fingers like to poke through bars and the last thing you want is her feelign trapped by the child!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
maswingle
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:35 am

Re: Jealous dog

Post by maswingle »

Thank you for the advice. I will use your walking plan as short walks fit with my knee problems and I will do it where no one is around - even if we have to take a small car trip.

She does have a crate within a pen and she does enjoy that as her spot. I have a Kong and will begin using it and experiment with the best food to use with it. She is not fond of Merrick so I need to try another that will not only feed her but she will view as a treat.

Thanks also for the advice on strangers and food. I was tempted to do it but felt that it would not be a good move.

I feel so reassured that everyone is helping me keep my dog with their great advice. I have also located a local trainer from Victoria Stillwell's site and an gathering the funds so I can begin training - hopefully in the fall and with some progress thanks to all of the advice.

With gratitude,
Marilynn
emmabeth
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Re: Jealous dog

Post by emmabeth »

Good stuff :)

If nothing else, managing the issue until you have saved up to see a trainer is a distinct improvement on allowing things to continue as they are and may actually do more good than you think. So do not beat yourself up about not being able to dive in there and fix everything right away, it is rare that we can do that, real life does get in the way of theory!!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
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