Help - My dog is Unwalkable!

[jakesmom]

No Mattie, this is not correct.

On several post I have mentioned that I use a dogmatic, and I always get the same response --- that they can break a dog's neck, and I need to teach my dog how to walk properly, even though I checked it out with three different vets, and was assured they would not --- but nonetheless, I always stress to use them in conjuction with a harness. I can find them out and copy them for you if you wish.

I am sorry you feel insulted, but so do I. I am also sorry that you do not want to respond to me further, but that is you choice.

[Mattie]

Try telling a friend of mine who saw a Dalmation break his neck leaping about on the end of one that dogs dogs can't break their necks with them. Vets are very good for getting our dogs well again but don't know much about dog behaviour because they don't have the time when training to learn this, they have so much other, more important to them to learn.

[Nettle]

Dogs most definitely do break their necks in any type of headcollar. The necks that don't break frequently subluxate. A dog can subluxate neck vertebrae even on an ordinary collar and lead, never mind with the extra leverage from a headcollar.

An ounce of experience is worth a ton of theory another vet would have different experiences.

[junebug]

I think head collars are great. First of all a lot of people don't care if they walk their dog on a buckle collar, a harness, a head collar, or a combination of all three. They just want to enjoy walking their dog, and I know plenty of people that happily always put a Gentle Leader on their dog. That is owner preference and I find it almost rude for people to say "your dog is not trained, you need to train your dog." Not all dogs need to be trained the same things, just because Owner A wants her dogs to walk nicely on just a buckle collar doesn't mean it's wrong for Owner B to decide she just wants to use a head collar.

Second there seems to be this vibe that you are not actually doing any training if you use a head collar. Sure they can be used that way, but they are training tools so yes it is very possible to wean the dog off. Personally I used to walk my dog on a Gentle Leader, and now I don't. We no longer need it. It was a training tool. It's very hard to train a dog that you can't control, regardless of what training method you are using. And when your dog is under control, it makes you more confident, which means you walk your dog more, and are not transferring your stress and anxiety down the leash...

I am not saying everyone should rush out and buy one, for me it was a last resort--but holy cow, there is more than one way to train a dog, people do not need to be lectured to just because they used a different method. It is best to have options, and to be able to pick the one that works best for you and your dog.

[Nettle]

That's why we remind people that the safe way is to have one lead off the headcollar and another off the collar. While the training is a works-in-progress, there is far less risk of damaging the dog.

[Sarah83]

just because Owner A wants her dogs to walk nicely on just a buckle collar doesn't mean it's wrong for Owner B to decide she just wants to use a head collar.

Well personally I think it's wrong to use a head collar just so you don't have to teach the dog to walk nicely. If people don't mind their dogs pulling then fine but I cringe when I see a dog pulling so hard on a halti that its head is pulled round to the side and its leading with its shoulder. Surely that's got to be terrible for the neck! And I see it a lot sadly.

I use a halti myself so I'm not anti head collar, I just strongly disagree that it's okay to use one instead of teaching your dog not to pull. I use one because Rupert will lunge after other dogs and he's a hell of a lot stronger than me if he catches me off guard. The halti lets me get him back under control. And yeah, double ended leash so the jerk doesn't come on his halti.

[jacksdad]

I use a halti myself so I'm not anti head collar, I just strongly disagree that it's okay to use one instead of teaching your dog not to pull.

excellent point Sarah. basically the same point I tried to make in another thread that the these are tools to aid, NOT replace training. I think you just said it better though.

[jakesmom]

Hello Mattie

I've been thinking, and just want to say I'm sorry if I went over the top. Can we put this behind us and be friends again ??

Sue x

[Mattie]

I think head collars are great. First of all a lot of people don't care if they walk their dog on a buckle collar, a harness, a head collar, or a combination of all three. They just want to enjoy walking their dog, and I know plenty of people that happily always put a Gentle Leader on their dog. That is owner preference and I find it almost rude for people to say "your dog is not trained, you need to train your dog." Not all dogs need to be trained the same things, just because Owner A wants her dogs to walk nicely on just a buckle collar doesn't mean it's wrong for Owner B to decide she just wants to use a head collar.

I think you are misunderstanding Junebug, we tell people that their dog needs teaching to walk on a loose lead when they pull, if they are not pulling there is no point in telling them to train their dogs. Headcollars are a took to help control the dog, nothing more nothing less, they don't teach a dog anything, they can do a lot of damage to a dog's neck, over extend the muscles on one side and crush the muscles on the other, they can even cause a dog to break its neck if they leap about on the end on one. This is why we tell owners to use either 2 leads or a double ended lead, for the dog's safety.

Even dogs that walk well on a collar can damage their necks, they see something and try to take off after it but stopped dead, I know a dog that needed an emergency operation on his neck after this happening, dogs that pull on a collar can do a lot of damage to their neck and trachea, I adopted an old Staffy that needed a treacheotomy in. Even harnesses can bruise a dog's chest if they take off and stopped dead but I prefer to have my dog's chest bruised than their neck seriously damaged or even broken. I have lived with a dog with a tracheotomy, I know what is involved when a dog's neck is damaged.

Second there seems to be this vibe that you are not actually doing any training if you use a head collar. Sure they can be used that way, but they are training tools so yes it is very possible to wean the dog off. Personally I used to walk my dog on a Gentle Leader, and now I don't. We no longer need it. It was a training tool. It's very hard to train a dog that you can't control, regardless of what training method you are using. And when your dog is under control, it makes you more confident, which means you walk your dog more, and are not transferring your stress and anxiety down the leash...

Nobody has said not to have your dog undercontrol but the dog has to be safe while under control, no point in putting a gadget on your dog for your dog to break its neck because it wasn't used properly. On here we always put safety first, safety for the owner and the dog, telling people how to use these training gadgets properly is all part of keeping them safe.

I am not saying everyone should rush out and buy one, for me it was a last resort--but holy cow, there is more than one way to train a dog, people do not need to be lectured to just because they used a different method. It is best to have options, and to be able to pick the one that works best for you and your dog.

Maybe you should read the posts again, one of the beauties of this forum is the different ways to teach our dogs, we are very keen on safety, if the dog or owner is not going to be safe then we will say so, no matter what is being used SAFETY MUST COME FIRST and we will say if something is not going to be safe, like walking a dog just on a headcollar.

Hello Mattie

I've been thinking, and just want to say I'm sorry if I went over the top. Can we put this behind us and be friends again ??

Sue x

Of course, sometimes we do misunderstand what is written on the internet.

[jakesmom]

Great. Let's leave it at that

[nightsrainfall]

That's why we remind people that the safe way is to have one lead off the headcollar and another off the collar. While the training is a works-in-progress, there is far less risk of damaging the dog.

I'm dyslexic and a bit uncoordinated, so using two leashes that were attached to two different areas confused me the first 4-5 times I tried it (poor dog I was trying to walk!), but now that I have a method and way so they won't get tangled and I won't mix up the leashes (for medium to extra large dogs), I really like the two lead walking with a harness and headcollar! (I'm pretty sure I'd have to relearn how to do wit for small dogs though!)

I'd never walk a dog with just a headcollar, but again I walk shelter dogs so the whole unpredicablity thing keeps me cautious and stuck in the ways I believe"work". I would like to know that 10 minute no pull method someone stated in another thread!!! Usually I'm happy if I can get them to not pull half to 1/4th of the time - its usually because they aren't getting enough exercise nor consistency though since it is a shelter...

[KDMonster]

We found a leash that helps with the walking - it does not prevent him from lunging, but it is made from really strong parachute cord so when he does lunge as long as the person on the other end has good footing he doesn't go too far. After a few lunges he realizes he's not getting anywhere, but now he has developed an even more disturbing habit - he lunges at passing cars! This is really frightening because it is so dangerous. He doesn't lunge at every car, but just when you think he's gotten it out of his system he tries it again. I can't see any pattern (ie loud cars, red cars,etc) and he can be walking along calm as can be and if a car passes he tries to go after it. This is a new behaviour and I can't imaging where it came from. Yesterday I tried bringing him in the front yard (on leash) and put him in a sit-stay - he was OK for a few minutes - made sure i praised him when a car passed when he didn't react. Sometimes 3-4 cars would pass and he would stay, but then he would try to lunge at the next 2 cars. I'm afraid Luke is destined to never leave our back yard!
KD

[Noobs]

I think Fundog had this issue with one or both of her girls. She'll probably be on soon to send you a link to her post showing how she curbed it.

Meanwhile it will behoove you to learn how to read your dog. Do a search on canine body language. Google Turgid Rugaas, the trainer who has studied it. Learn how to read the dog's body language and in time you should know by his posture and the look in his eyes if he's about to lunge. Learning how to read his body language will be vital in your being able to tell what he'll do before he does it.