They're sharing!

Share your experience and tell us how using positive reinforcement training methods has changed yours and your dogs' lives.

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Wicket
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They're sharing!

Post by Wicket »

A year ago, I decided to deal with Maggie (Poodle)'s possessiveness with toys. It had gotten to the point where Betsy (Chihuahua-Poodle mix) could never play with a toy; Maggie would bully and push her away from the toy and then hoard them. Eventually, non-bloody fights happened. Through self-control games and positive reinforcement, both girls have gotten better.

Yesterday, it looked a fight was about to happen over a new squeaky toy that they both wanted. Maggie started to do the stare and Mom said, "Maggie, no!" but Maggie got more tense and kept her eye on Betsy. I said in a pleasant voice, "Maggie, lay off" and she wagged her tail and came towards me. Without my prompting, she sit/stayed, waiting until Betsy was done playing with the toy. Once Betsy had left the toy, Maggie went and picked up the toy, just like I'd taught her. She's now looking to me whenever Betsy has a toy instead of harassing her.

Maggie and Betsy are understanding the rules I've put in the place for when and how they can get toys without my prompting. :)
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Nettle
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Re: They're sharing!

Post by Nettle »

I am so not wanting to rain on your parade :wink: but you need some tweaks or there will be trouble.

Sharing isn't natural for dogs and they don't get a kick out of it like people do. Instead they build up antsiness, and then move on to conflict.

SO

If one has something, the other should have something just as nice. If you call one away and the other gets her trophy, the first one will not be impressed and it will weaken the relationship she has with you, and put a strain on the relationship she has with the other dog.

Much as it is a human way to think they can be friends and share - they will end up enemies and fight. And with two ladydogs, this fighting can have a terrible result.

I strongly recommend you forget all about sharing and make sure they have evens instead.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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Wicket
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Re: They're sharing!

Post by Wicket »

Hey Nettle,
I've tried getting them equal value toys, but sometimes Maggie will want the one Betsy has, even she already has one. I'm glad the program I've had has stopped some of Maggie's extreme possessiveness and can call them off if a fight is about to start, but I'm still struggling finding what toy is "even." Do you have any ideas?

By sharing, I don't mean two dogs are sharing a toy at the same time, but rather Maggie doesn't act like all the toys belong to her. Maggie's okay with Betsy having one beside her while she's resting or they both have their own toy at the same time.
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Nettle
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Re: They're sharing!

Post by Nettle »

It's really hard, isn't it, and I think you have done so very well.

The dogs will let you know which items they think are high-value - often not the items we would think are so good. They like stuff that feels good in the mouth and that you can chow down on. A surprising number of toys don't feel good in the mouth but are bright colours so they appeal to us people rather than our dogs :lol:

Instead of calling Miss Possessive It All Belongs To Me away and letting her watch, call her away and play a little game with her, then leave her the toy you've been playing with, and see how she goes with that.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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ckranz
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Re: They're sharing!

Post by ckranz »

Oh yes the other dog's current toy is always much better than the one you are holding...and of course he who has all the toys wins. I go through this with about every toy we have around the house.

Our rules for "toy time"

1 toy per dog
Toys are interactive. This means both my wife and are engaged with 2 of our three dogs with lots of dog and toy swapping.
No hording....When Apollo tries to lay on multiple toys or carry them all in his mouth...we ask for a drop and remove all toys. (Apollo is our only horder).
All switch toys after 5 minutes: Chloe always want the toy that either Apollo or Khan currently have. after a brief period of play, toys are surrendered and rewarded with a new toy or treats. This way each dog get to play with their favorite toy, and are rewarded for the drop and continued playing.
Damaged toys are replaced.

If there are any sign of growling, aggressive postures (All toys are immediately picked up and toy time ends) This rarely happens anymore. In fact this past weekend each dog was taking turns at fetching their new chuck it-disk (Its like a heavy duty cloth fribee that rolls and bounces better than it flies). Not a single growl or bad behavior and all fetches were great for both Apollo and Khan...Chloe prefers keep away but that is part of the game for her.
Wicket
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Re: They're sharing!

Post by Wicket »

Well, I tried Nettle's way with Maggie over the weekend. Betsy had the current high value toy and I distracted Maggie by making a lesser high value toy by playing tug with her. It didn't work so well when I tried it with Betsy after the dogs switched toys; Maggie followed me and tried me to get to play with her too, making the high value toy for Betsy but fortunately both dogs had self-control and no fights erupted.

I've been giving Maggie more attention, exercise and positive feedback since I don't think she gets enough from my parents. It's usually "bad girl" or "no!" when she does something wrong and treats for doing nothing. She seems more relaxed and not as focused on the toys.

But I'm noticing it's not just Maggie anymore, but Betsy has been doing The Stare too. Is it possible that Betsy could've learned her guarding behavior from Maggie or felt the need to do it after Maggie's harrassment? Or I need to focus on training her more?

Ckranz:
I've tried the switching toys between them, but there usually focused on one toy over the other. I've, too, taken all the toys away if there's any imminent signs of a fight. I pick them all up, put them out of their line of sight and open my hands, saying "All Gone!" in a nice voice. After that, they calm down and no one tries to get me to get the toys. Thanks for sharing your experiences and what's worked for you. It's been helpful! :)
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Nettle
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Re: They're sharing!

Post by Nettle »

Betsy is growing more confident and if you hadn't been managing this, she would have worked up to attacking Maggie. So good for you for doing what you can to keep the mood gentle. B itches can be hell when they take against each other.

Tired dogs are less likely to fight :wink: never underestimate the value of exercise, physical and mental.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Wicket
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Re: They're sharing!

Post by Wicket »

Update: I finally figured out "even" toys! Both girls love the plushy or stuffing free squeaky toys!

Maggie has been doing a lot better. I've been doing basic obedience commands while Betsy is squeaking the toy as a distraction. Lately, she's been looking to me when she sees Betsy with a toy, waiting for me to give her toy. When she does, I give her a medium value treat followed by her toy. A couple days ago, Maggie actually fell asleep next to Betsy playing with a highly valued Kong.

Maggie can get revved up by them if she's getting tired and take her frustration out on Betsy, but when that happens, I've been taking the toys away, followed by a walk or cuddle. :)
maythewondercat
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Re: They're sharing!

Post by maythewondercat »

good work, but make sure to keep them superviesed
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