An Amazing last week

[jacksdad]

It started last Saturday with Jack having his first 100% off leash walk. we went back up to the school, and went for it. No one else was around (dog wise) and there were only a few humans around. He did amazing. stuck to me, came when I called....until the ducks, ooops what happens without a lease, stays...ok here is what happened. we had been walking along and it felt like it was time to call Jack back for some practice. we hit a spot that seems perfect. hill on the left, fence on the right, no cats, dogs, squirrels, nothing. Jack was walking about 10 yards ahead of me and every now and then looking over his shoulder to see where I was. I wait for him to turn and look at me (bingo)..."Jack..HERE"... he spins around looks at me, sticks his nose in the air and runs off to our left up the hill. What the???? so I go after him. I get up to the top of the hill there is Jack at a fence. I call out Jack???? he turns an looks at me like "Dude...ducks" Which is just about the time I notice them, and sure enough there was about a half dozen geese and about a dozen ducks. Ok, once again lesson learned, somethings are really hard to compete with...particularly if you don't even KNOW THEY ARE THERE. But it went really well. discovered hid and seek and chase (him chasing me) are both stronger then a verbal recall. I will take it, but work on the verbal recall continues. And he got about an hour walk off leash.

On Monday we went to our normal park and after our walk I let him run around dragging his leash and played some chase with him. boy does he love to run and he ignores the people pretty darn well. Then as we were running we pass a young dog and I almost thought we would pass the dog, but something about the dog grabbed Jacks attention and he went up to the other dog...oops, lesson learned here. turns out this dog also has fear issues, but instead of acting out like Jack, she trys and hids behind her people. Her people, not understanding keep trying to force her out and to go meet the other dogs. So as I was corralling Jack and apologizing I noticed this and polity told them its ok if she doesn't want to go up to Jack, he has also has fear issue and it's best to just let them move at their own pace. best to just let her observe and not force her to get close to other dogs. Said this more for Jack's sake, but if it helps them with their dog double win. So, here is where it gets cool. Jack now back with me and giving the other dog distance is staying calm this entire time as I am talking and allows the other dog to approach and sniff on her own terms. way to go Jack. of course i am watching Jack VERY closely and the other dog to. I kept the conversation short and moved on before it could go sideways as I am not qualified to help counter condition a dog with a dog and Jack is most defiantly not the dog to use for that, but in those couple minutes he gave this dog a calm and positive dog dog encounter. but more important. he stayed calm with a strange dog who was giving off fear signals.

Then it went down hill for a few days. For some reason Jack started being a bit touchy and reacting to humans. then got into a box i was storing treats in. I think he and Horace have been scheming together somehow. and for the next few days wasn't feeling 100%. Lesson here, puppy proof soon as you realize a possible problem and don't put it off just because it's not been a problem in the past.

Then came yesterday. On a potty walk we ran into two small dogs, both pretty dog reactive. Jack did not respond. though he got a bit amped up, he stayed outwardly calm for the most part. I am sure to another dog he was broadcasting otherwise, and I caught the signals too, so we walked on with "watch me" and rewards for look and staying calm. thinking I dodged a bullet we moved on. then as we came down the hill on the other side we ran into them again. but again while they exploded, Jack stayed calm. the lady walking the dogs ended her conversation and moved on and allowed us to move forward. the other lady comments as we approach, "now there is a nice quite dog" meaning Jack. To which I reply, thank you. we talked a couple minutes and I explained that what the other lady was dealing with was Jack a few months ago. hoping to plant the idea there is something that can be done. This isn't the first time neighbors are noticing Jacks being calm. And living in a place that has a homeowners association, its important to that any potential busybodies see Jack's improvement. hence the comment and in light of a letter recently went out about dogs barking uncontrollably. oh, and this was in my neighborhood, a place Jack has been struggling to stay calm around other dogs.

Then came this morning. Jack had his first walk since I have had him with another dog. some of you might remember a little while ago I mention I think Jack has a friend. well after a couple months of just brief encounters a couple times a week we decided to see if the dogs would walk together. I was a little unsure, but these two are so funny. they can't wait to meet/greet. then they sort of ignore, then they sniff, then when we move on they look like we just broke up their "date". It went excellent. Jack even pottyed with them very close by. I mention this only because 6 or 7 months ago it was a big deal for him to go potty without dogs around. if we had a run in and he blow up, it would be 15 or 20 minutes before he calmed down enough to do his "thing". But this morning, he stayed calm, did his potty this with another dog near by, walked nice, tried to initiate play and chase, though middle of a road isn't the best place, Luna showed him the cool dead rat she knew about.

Jack now has 2 dogs he absolutely tolerates. Luna and Lanni (who is a 14 year old min pincher and the only dog he doesn't resource guard me with)and 2 other dogs he does ok with...interestingly both female. Luna and Lanni are the only two we intentionally say hi to. I continue to work on ignore and or observe from a distance with the vast majority of dogs.

And we also ended this week with more off leash time back at the school yesterday and today.

I wanted to share because we have had another bunch of request for help for dogs with similar issues to Jack. Now, Jack's progress is no guarantee, and has been months in the making (which does not mean it could take you months), but we got here by starting with 100% avoiding dogs, not worrying about him getting socializing time with other dogs, finding place to go where he could relax with little to no chance of having to deal with dogs, finding places we would have to deal with dogs, but could have all the distance we needed etc. some of this I had to learn the hard way, which undoubtedly cost me a month or two not making progress, but I learn from the mistakes and move on. And now beyond hope, I am getting the chance to work with him off leash, and he has a couple dogs he can enter act with calmly if even just for a few minutes.

If you have a dog who goes bonkers around other dogs, even if it's not coming from a place of fear like Jack, there is hope. So, please don't give up.

[emmabeth]

Brilliant stuff, you and Jack are such a good team, and as you say your success stories and even the wobbles too, make for VERY useful reading for newcomers to the site!

[Mattie]

This is getting to be a habit, your success stories bringing tears to my eyes Wobbles are just us not having it quite right but listening to our dogs to get it right.

At first you think you will never have any improvement with our dogs, then suddenly, there is improvement after improvement and the compliments are flying.

Well done Jack and Jack's Dad, you have both worked so hard to get to this stage and life is so much better for both of you now.

[jacksdad]

I almost didn't share this last week, but I remember when I first started working with Jack and hearing/reading "do this" and it will get better and remember thinking "oh easy for you to say, your a professional trainer" or "ya, but you have had dogs for a zillion years".

I remember the feelings of frustration when Jack would blow up. the self doubt any of this would work. And wondering if I was the right person to be helping Jack etc, etc. Not to mention some of the advice being a bit of a downer "don't let your dog play with dogs???" "don't use the dog park" etc, stuff like that. So if I can even in small way show that do improve, and as they improve things change often positive ways you didn't expect or dared hope for. Like Jack starting to get some off leash time. Or taking a walk with another dog. Hopefully it might help someone who like me is just starting out, a first time dog owner, and it turns out your first dog is being channeled by Kujo, that there is hope.

I hope others will stick around and give progress updates too, and not just glossy positives, share the mistakes and lessons learned. Learning second hand is still learning and avoiding having to reinvent the wheel is kind of nice.

[Mattie]

I love to see the ups and downs of people like you who are trying so hard to help their dog, they all bring back memories of when I had problem dogs but didn't have anyone to turn to, there wasn't the internet in those days and the local trainers were all old school and I couldn't do that to my dogs.

I am not a trainer Jack's Dad, like you just a dog owner who over the years has gained experience with dogs because they came with problems. You came here for help, you listened to us even though you were desperate, so many don't listen, you then went and tried what we suggested and found that some things works, others you were able to adapt to suit you and Jack but still kept it all positive. Now you are joining in and helping others, you are giving a different aspect on everything we are trying to teach which really helps those that are now joining.

Everyone's experiences are different, our dogs are different and all need different ways to handle what on paper may look like the same problem, this is what makes this forum so special, we all believe in the same thing but all work differently for the same aim. I know with my dogs they all need different ways to train, Tilly is nervous, Bonnie and Dolly are confident, I can't train any of them the same way. As for Ellie, she is just a spoilt brat who is also an old lady.

[Sabrina]

Jacksdad - thanks soooo much for sharing! Hooray for you and Jack! Your posts are really helping me as I work with Charley, and it really helps me to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly . I'll have to post a Charley update soon - mostly good, a little bad (on my part!), and just a smidge ugly (in my opinion because I'm the strange one with no desire to eat cat scat ).

Anyway, hooray for you and Jack! Your progress is very inspirational!

[Noobs]

Well done Jack and dad! Even with the hiccups, you did great.

I'm with you. Sometimes it breaks my heart to think "Why can't you just be a normal dog?" who can be loose when people come into our house instead of behind a baby gate, who can walk past stimuli on the street without getting hyper-alert or without my having to do a tango around parked cars...

But it's a thousand times better than when you started, and that's what counts.

Good job!

[LindaOH]

So very happy to read about your amazing week. I "cyber feel" your happiness....good feelings for Jack and yourself re:the off leash and Jack's coolness with "the ladies"! The encouraging and supportive replies you have received is why I continue to follow this forum. A couple questions for you, Jacksdad...#1 did Jack and the ducks say anything to each other? (Chloe watches calmly as lots of mallards paddle by our lakefront lawn. She did bark once while backing up from a large swan which waddled up on our grass and was honking at her) #2 Does Jack tolerate his female friends equally? Any difference in how he interacts with either one? Once again, thank you for sharing...you always explain things so well. It is so helpful for a frequent reader like myself. May you and Jack have many more amazing weeks! Good boy, Jack!

[Mattie]

Well done Jack and dad! Even with the hiccups, you did great.

I'm with you. Sometimes it breaks my heart to think "Why can't you just be a normal dog?" who can be loose when people come into our house instead of behind a baby gate, who can walk past stimuli on the street without getting hyper-alert or without my having to do a tango around parked cars...

They wouldn't be the dog we love now Noobs, if our dogs were normal We also have the satisfaction of turning these traumatised babies into much better balanced dogs who can cope with a lot more than they could. Eventually you may have a nearly normal dog, then you will want another for the challenge.

[Noobs]

They wouldn't be the dog we love now Noobs, if our dogs were normal We also have the satisfaction of turning these traumatised babies into much better balanced dogs who can cope with a lot more than they could.

You are totally right. Also I wouldn't have come on here, met you wonderful people, and learned as much as I have.

Eventually you may have a nearly normal dog, then you will want another for the challenge.

Errrr....you may actually be right!!

[Fundog]

Well done, both of you-- cyber cake and champagne on the way.

[wvvdiup1]

Way to go Jack and Jacksdad!

[jacksdad]

Sabrina
I look forward to hearing how things are going with Charley.

LindaOH
Nope, just stood there looking at them all excited wishing the fence wasn't there so he could go charging in and try and play with them. Jack isn't that talkative a dog considering the stereotype associated with the chiwawa half of him. watch, now that I have said that he will start to yak my ear off.

yes, he does behave different with each of the ladies. With Luna he is excited to see her, but I have to keep an eye on those two if they try and play because their play styles are different and she is bigger than Jack. Jack is an 18 pound chiwawa/JR mix. Luna is a Jindo I believe. Her play involves a bit more physical contact, Jacks is more about the run and chase. because they have only meet while on walk and on leash, i don't know how their two play style would shake out if they could run free together. They seem to also like/be ok just be near each other. On the walk they were content to do their own thing, then come together and share a sniff, or maybe sniff where the other had found something. They also have these sitting "contests". Luna's "mom" will ask her to sit and give her a treat. Jack will see this and run over and offer the most perfect sit you've seen. Or if I am asking jack for a watch me as something that is making him nervous walks by, luna will come over and sit in front of me and try and earn a treat too.

With Lanni, who is a 14 year old mini pincher, he is VERY tolerant of her grumpiness, is very genital in his approach and enter actions with her. Once he says hi he is pretty much done with her. BUT, and this is the interesting part. If I crouch down and say hi to her and pet her, give her attention. He doesn't seem to mind. And even if she isn't in a "sharing" mood, he is like, ok no problem. Any other dog comes up to me if I am crouched down he runs to put him self between me and the other dog. he does NOT share. No way no how.

The other two dogs are hit and miss in how well he does with them. over all he does seem to have an easier time with females, but human kind or dog kind.

Mattie
I agree. there was a point that I wasn't sure keeping Jack was the right thing. I was frustrated, stressed, tired, feeling over my head etc. But ever since the pit bull attack I can't imagine not having him. it was a turning point for both of us. Things started clicking between us. I used to say, never again. one jack is enough. Now, if jack were to pass on and I went looking for another dog, I might seriously consider another fearful dog. Watching him go from any dog means a blow up/melt down to now it's specific dogs and he can even look at two other dogs lunching/barking freaking out and staying fairly calm himself...just amazing. it's very cool. even his reactivity in the house to noises and smells of dogs is getting much much better. I can tell by the noises he is making sometimes that he is trying to stay calm. it's hard sometimes, but he is trying.
Like I mentioned to noobs in another tread. I think we are the lucky ones, if we had normal dogs our bond with them and our knowledge would not be what it is today. And it only grows as we learn more and the dogs improve.

[Nettle]

This is heartwarming, Jacksdad, I am delighted to hear of your progress, and there are never mistakes only setbacks. Sometimes we take two steps back and then go forward half a dozen steps.

Do keep on telling us how you and Jack progress it's so lovely to hear.