Errol - has met TWO new people..

[***Melissa***]

@ Mattie and the bottle of wine

[Mattie]

A bottle of wine always brings a smile to people which relaxes them Melissa, then when the pour a glass it relaxes them more.

[emmabeth]

Ive chilled out a bit - these things are sent to try us and as so rightly pointed out.... you cant fix stupid.

I have decided that I am going to attempt to proof Errol against 'stupid' by teaching him some new behaviours, the cues for which are the stupid things people do - with any luck this might work! Any ideas what behaviours I can use the body language signals 'pointy fingers/leaning over' and 'stompy shuffly feet' for? What would be good and incompatible with 'barking and feeling the need to nip' but equally not 'really hard to do if a bit nervous'?

[Noobs]

How about back up? It would seem like a good cue - person leans forward and points, dog backs up. Both parties, even stupid, wins?

Or a "kiss my butt" type command (to get behind you).

[emmabeth]

Both good ideas ... I was wondering if eventually I could get him to turn his back on whoever, and 'sulk', which would certainly deflate any muppet-persons ego and probably not encourage further repetitions of their behaviour.

Hmm.. *ponder ponder*

[Noobs]

A really funny one would be to have him hide his eyes under his paw.

Stupid person - stomps, points, "Hey, you, rarrrr!"
Errol - covers eyes with paw

DUUUUUUDE I would think that was adorable and if I was a stupid puppy bullier, it would probably turn me around!

[Helen2009]

Just caught up with this thread, sounds like you and Errol have made some great progress and yes like you, we've suffered a setback. Its funny how I as a person always dwell on the negative stuff but really have to pull myself up and think "hey look what you've both achieved!!", the former seems far easier for some reason!

[molosser]

Thanks for sharing your success story, Emma

being an owner of a fearful dog, I truly understand how you feel.
Fearful dogs (especially those that lacked early socialisation) are very often mistreated because trainers and owners treat them like dominating "beasts" that don't "know who is the boss" and all this usually ends up turning them into seriously aggressive dogs or to panicked submissive dogs that end up with serious psychosomatic illnesses. And generally, I have unfortunately noticed that stressful dogs don't get the attention they deserve, through dog-people communities. Even most training books, don't even mention them at all.
We usually read about several kind of behaviors being called as "dominating" behaviors, even though the truth is often far from that.
Am I crazy, or is this really happening? Is fearfullness considered to be of slight signifignance between dog-people communities? Are training books and trainers generally focus only on obedience and much less in socialising? What do you think?

Every time I have to explain how a stranger must act in front of a fearful dog, in order to allow the dog to approach him and eventually like him or even trust him, I notice people look at me like I am an alien or something.

Anyway, thanks for posting your story and way to go for all your hard work

Mary

[emmabeth]

Welllllll... Errol has met more new folks...

He met my friends and their daughter who is 8, twice! (They came, stayed for a night, went away and came back another day for a few hours), the second time with their new dog!

On the whole he was pretty good, a few times he got a bit unnerved by Dave but by his own admission Dave overstepped the mark a couple of times when Errol was offering play then changed his mind about being so brave and Dave didnt realise quite soon enough. Apart from that (and it really was just a couple of little tiny incidences) and a couple of time outs for shouting at the little girl (to make her play with him but he was just making her jump!) it went really really well.

That was a few weeks back, since then hes had a few visits from people he knows really well and likes and on friday my OH's parents are visiting, who he HAS met.... but not since this time last year when he was really really tiny baby-dog... and OH's dad is a small beardy man.

Hopefully, OH's dad will do as he is told (he will, hes only ever not followed my instructions once and I have never sworn so loudly and so proficiently at someone in my life... the instruction was 'do not stand in doorways with the door open. Come in, shut the door or this foster greyhound will eat that cat'. He didnt, she did, nearly.... (cat was fortunately ok!).

Since then.... OH's dad does what I say. so fingers x!!!! He is a quiet chap and not really given to doing stupid things like woofing in a dogs face..... i hope!!!!!

Molosser - yep this is the attitude I get from a lot of people, that the dog isnt fearful its being rude or bad or dominating. My dad cannot understand why Errol is terrified of him and yells his head off at him constantly, because he means no harm - he absolutely cannot see that irrespective of his intentions, Errol is scared, so he blames Errol for it and calls him a stupid 'thing'. Grr!

According to him (btw.. he owns cats. And most dogs find him unnerving, rather a lot have bitten him!) dogs should tolerate anything and everything a human does, without question, at all times and if they dont - get rid of them.

Annyway moving on cos that particular subject gets me mad (i hung up on my dad just the other day because we got onto the topic of Errol not liking him!)...

I do think training stuff does tend to focus more on obedience and tricks and activities - its dog behaviour where we get down to the nitty gritty of fear, anxiety, reactivity... etc etc.

A lot of people think its merely a case of training the dog and yeah if you have a well balanced easy going dog, thats probably all you need - those of us with less middle of the road, run of the mill dogs.. we find out that understanding dog behaviour helps us fix things so that training becomes possible!

I do wish more dog owners would take an interest in the nuts and bolts of dog behaviour - but maybe thats just me, I am driven to knowk how, why something works, is it working for the right reasons - I cannot and I never could, accept that something works because someone else says so, or even because i can see that it appears to work at face value.

Yep - I was the kid taking things apart with a screwdriver as soon as i was old enough to hold one... the sort of kid some teachers really hate because I was asking questions about university level stuff when I was still only 12!

[Fundog]

"Yep - I was the kid taking things apart with a screwdriver as soon as i was old enough to hold one... the sort of kid some teachers really hate because I was asking questions about university level stuff when I was still only 12!" [end of quote]


LOL-- Emmabeth, my kids are like that-- it drives me crazy! But they get it from their father, who was also like that, and still is! Aaargh!


Anyway, when people approach wanting to pet Annie, I always tell them she is very shy with meeting new people, and is especially trained to be aggressive toward men who are not in my family. But she adores children. So then people are very eager to obey my instructions for the very rare privilege of winning Annie's favour. And of course, the men are always very impressed that Annie is "protective" and not willing to push her farther than she is comfortable. And of course, then everyone starts asking me a lot of questions about her, as though she were some exotic zoo specimen, lol. I remember one particular time when Annie allowed a little boy to love on her, and after talking to him and his mother for a few minutes, the little boy decided he wanted an "Annie," meaning a dog EXACTLY like her, if he couldn't have my Annie!

[Mattie]

I am driven to knowk how, why something works, is it working for the right reasons - I cannot and I never could, accept that something works because someone else says so, or even because i can see that it appears to work at face value.

This sounds like me, with all the work going on in my house I am driving the men mad by the questions I am asking, how does that work? Why are you doing that? What is that? etc etc etc.

[Mattie]

Pressed send accidentally and can't modify my post.

Well done Errol and well done mum for working so hard with Errol.

[luvmydogs]

Congrats..It feels so good with all your hard work you see some results..My 5 month puppy started to display that fearful stage..She loves children but when she saw 2 little kids coming her way with these hats on she couldn't figure them out and started reacting..I was able to distract her and tried to explain to the mom that it was the kids hats..I don't think she believed me..Oh well..Do you ever imagine what your dog would be like if someone who didn't understand dogs had her??? I know one of mine would have been sent to the shelter..I'm lucky I have her..As Errol is lucky to have you..

[emmabeth]

WAAHOO...*does the Snoopy dance* (we REALLY need a dancing snoopy emote here....)

So, OHs parents came over this afternoon, poor Dilly lurcher is utterly WIRED at the moment because theres been cats fighting outside and window cleaners so when they knocked and i was upstairs swearing at my taps (our boiler is dying, no hot water unless you hit the magic combination of expletives) so it took me a while to answer the door....

I went out the front and brought them in round the back so the dogs were in the hallway, peopl in the kitchen, baby gate between us all.... they were quite barky because Dilly was on planet Hysterical.. normally this is a recipe for disaster!

We chatted for a few minutes whilst they sat down took their coats off, adn then i opened the back doors so dogs could go outside if they wanted to, and opened teh baby gates and 'released the hounds' ...

Both of OHs parents had been instructed not to make eyecontact, not to speak to him and pretty much ignore him, and they were both pre-armed with tasty training treats... to lob in Errols direction if he headed their way.

He woofed a little tiny weeny bit... ate LOADS of sweets, bumbled off outside, came back.... to cut a long story short within 15 minutes he was pretty settled and licking their hands, he had a minor upset when David went out to their car and came back in carrying a box and wearing a bright red wooly hat... but as soon as i pointed out that this made him a totally NEW strange person he took the hat off and Errol was fine again.

By the time they left at about 7pm (they arrived about 4ish), Errol was climbing on the back of the sofa to wash Davids bald spot for him (all baldy people need that apparently!), and wedging himself between David and Gaye on the sofa requiring his tummy tickled and his ears scritched.. the utter TART!

I dont doubt that tomorrow morning when they reappear (they stay at a hotel as David is somewhat phobic about rodents and we keep 7 female rats and 6 male Degus in our spare room!!) Errol will need more sweeties to remember that these people are friends but I dont forsee any massive problems at all and I am really REALLY pleased with him (And with David too!!!).

So.... YAY Errol!!! (Also everyone else was good and Kelda took refuge under my desk only once, she can be a strange old thing that one, shes met them loads but is worried... shes terrified of anyone in a Pets At Home store, yet she has been known to randomly jump up!!!! and snog total strangers (!!!!!!! whoops! they were appreciative though fortunately!) and loves the lady in the pet store who shes met perhaps three times in her life!

[Fundog]

Whoo-hoo! Well done, David and Errol!