someone forgot to tell jack he is a reactive dog today

[jacksdad]

So it starts off this morning, we were able to pass on opposite sides of the street from a female old English bulldog that Jack struggles with. Normally it's see this dog and flip out. I wish I could figure out if it's the dog or the man that comes with her that Jack is afraid of. There was 10 maybe 15 feet between us. No bark, no lunge, just went somewhat tense, ears up, tail up, took a good look, then turned away back to me, and just stayed focused on me, with the occasional glance and just gobbled chicken as fast as I could feed him. my neighbor knows I am working with Jack, so he put his dog in a sit for about a minute, then moved on.

seconds later we ran into two cattle dogs of some kind that we almost never see. Jack had a harder time turning away from them being two dogs and one was off leash. BUT the off leash dog never came up to, Jack never barked or flipped out and it really felt like Jack shifted from "oh crap dogs" to "hummm, play time...maybe??? " in his attitude. But he never looked like he was on the edge of "going reactive" like with the bulldog.

Then tonight, we met for the first time a visiting cockier spaniel, who Jack right off the bat hit it off with. They played HARD for a good 30 or 40 minutes. I have never seen Jack play like this before. it wasn't just chase me, now I chase you like I am used to seeing. there was rough body slamming, wrestling, rolling, and lots of vocal noise from Jack, even a little tug of war with a stick. Jack on one end, the spaniel on the other.

Jack seems to be is developing a very vocal play stile. I have to really pay attention to the pitch to tell if it's play or if he is on edge and trying to say back off. because he is getting more vocal with me when we play and he gets excited, I listen for the same sounds, which are clear high pitched excitement/play noise. And like Jean Donaldson says to look for when the play is rough, Jack keep going back for more and not acting like he is just trying to get space. he was defiantly having fun.

now if that wasn't enough, the people out exercising the spaniel were two small boys about 6 years old. Their adult supervision kept checking on them from the window of the house we were next too and coming out to check on them. We were out on a common area next to their house, an across from mine. Jack was all things considered VERY ok with them. didn't let them touch him of course and what I mean by all things considered is that sometimes the dogs would take a break and he would suddenly remember they boys were close and start barking. I kept reminding the boys to ignore him and not try and touch him and they would be find. and with the following exception they listened.

Finally Luna (jacks buddy) showed up and at first wasn't too sure what was going on. who was this new dog and what was he doing to her Jack. that poor spaniel suddenly had a "over protective" Jindo looking over his shoulder. She did relax once it was clear Jack wasn't being hassled. I kid you not, Jack and Luna look out for each other and if one is aroused the other feeds off it now there is two aroused dogs on the "prowl". poor neighborhood cats usually get the brunt of this. So anyway, Luna's mum decides to show the boys how to get their dog to sit and this is where the boys forgot to not try and enter act with Jack....so one of them got so excited about being able to teach a dog to sit, he decided to ask jack to sit...JACK SAT for him and took the treat from him ....and then promptly ran to me

I was soooooo proud of him. he was all lose body and smiles and having a ball.

[Mattie]

I have gone all weepy, well done Jack and his dad, you have both come a long way from when you first came on here. It is so lovely to see posts like this.

[ladybug1802]

Oh that is SO brilliant!!!! Well done!!! You must be over the moon!

Has Jack been dog and people reactive??

[jacksdad]

thanks mattie, and thinks for the insight and great posts that helped.

Ladybug, thank you as well.

Yes, jack is people/dog reactive. on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being complete flip out, with dogs Jack was a 15 (not a typo ) when I started looking for help. see dog any distance, any type, anytime = complete melt down. people, less so, he was probably a 7. but the dog issue masked it. it wasn't until these last 6 months that I really saw how bad he was with strangers. The clue was when I noticed he wasn't even looking at the dog anymore while being reactive. With people it's less see and flip out more "OMG!!! you looked at me or talked to me or tried and touch me". And young kids....forget about it..no way, no how would he let them get close.

I have been using strait up classical conditioning with humans. see human, get treat. doesn't matter if he barks, chuffs, dances around etc. people = treat. except complete flip outs, which he wouldn't take a treat anyway but these are rare these days. He will now pass, touch, go up and sniff a stranger. he isn't always ignoring them and pretending they aren't there anymore. But he still won't let them touch him. that's still a deal breaker. ironically, I have less problem with this with children. I have been asked more times by young children this last month if they could pet Jack, I politely tell them no and the walk way. adults...they need to take a clue from the kids.

So today, it's stress management day. minimal contact/interaction with anyone. dog or human.

[ladybug1802]

Oh you have done brilliantly then! For some reason i thought Jack was just dog reactive.....but dog and people....wow you have helped him so much! And from having a dog who is just stranger reactive, and now only when they stare or try to touch him, I can really relate to how much work you have had to put in!!! Jack is very very lucky!!

[jakesmom]

Well done Jacksdad. Doesn't it just feel GREAT!!!!! That hard work is paying off.

[MPbandmom]

Way to go Jack and Dad! Your stories of success continue to inspire me that there is hope for Sirius. Keep on posting!

[Helen2009]

Wow that's brilliant news. You have come so far you must be so proud of your dog and well done you! My biggest fear is off lead dogs. How did you know when the time was right for him to start mixing with other dogs? Well done again on all that you have achieved.

[Mattie]

Watch your dog's body language Helen, there is a thread in the Articles section that shows several clips on body language they are very good, I learnt quite a lot from them.

Also a dog running towards you watch their body language as well, you will learn which will be friendly and which won't be, if in doubt don't let the dog get to yours.

You to will get to Jack's stage eventually and learn a lot more about dogs in the process.

[Helen2009]

Thank you Mattie, I will go and look at the articles now. Yours and everyone's advice has been brilliant.

[jacksdad]

How did you know when the time was right for him to start mixing with other dogs?

Like mattie says, learn your dogs body language. I learned what a relaxed, aroused, anxious, happy, overwhelmed, excited (in both a good way and bad way), shutdown, curious, tentative and more Jack looks like.

I worked on learning the more "universal" signals that dogs give off so I could make as much an educated guess about the other dog as possible.

Then I learned to "listen" to Jack. based on everything I have learned about dogs in general, and Jack in particular...is letting this "dog" and Jack meet and greet a good idea? I still miss things. I still make mistakes and miss read Jack sometimes but it's all part of the process, and I work to improve my skills in this area. Still have "volumes" to learn, but you would be surprised how little you need to learn to be "light years" ahead of the average person you encounter on your walks.

I have also learned not to trust others that "their dog is ok"..that has blow up in our faces BIG time. So, now I generally "ignore" the other person and let their dog "tell it's own story". if it's flipping out, we avoid. if it's pulling, barking lunging...we avoid. Did it just tuck it's tail and plaster it's self to it's person, avoid. did it just go still and lean forward..we avoid. If it's a dog about Jack's size and calm, I will consider it. But this was MONTHS of avoiding and treats for looking or ignoring at a distance before I intentionally considered something like this.

It is important to remember the primary goal is NOT getting your dog to the point it can "start mixing with other dogs". The primary goal is to get you dog to be calm when other dogs are around. To be able to look at another dog and more accurately asses is this dog one to worry about or is it ok to ignore, rather than flipping out over all dogs. a secondary goal would be reaching a point your dog can play with other dogs. Certainly not every dog you encounter, but select dogs that are a good match both physically and temperament wise. But until your dog can even deal with looking/watching/knowing a dog is around at distance, it's counter productive to try and achieve a successful 'meet and greet'. Life will force those on you, and if it goes good take it, enjoy it, but don't let it fool you in to thinking your further along then you might really be. sometimes your dog can deal better with a surprise meet and greet then if you intentionally tried to arrange one. this is because your dog very possibly partially shutdown.

You will get there. Jack and I have been working on this for over a year and a half now and there is still room to improve for both of us.

[Helen2009]

Wow great reply Jacksdad, you've come so far. Like you've I have been working with Evie for ages. I have had her 2 years and have been working like this for over a year now. To be honest and I can't believe I'm saying this after all this time but..., she is better than my other dog on the lead in so far as noise is concerned. She will have a little flip out but I can bring her round. Dogs staring right at her and flipping out themselves is another thing of course, but we are getting there. My other dog Archie is an absolute babe off lead, he's a lovely boy, but does get barky on the lead. So I have to work with him too. Taking them out together is tricky as he seems to get worse when with her (she actually seems less nervous) but I suppose that is because they have each other. So I still walk and work them separately, though with Archie its just more simple all round. When he is off lead I have no worries on how he will react, he backs down from a fight and doesn't like confrontation.

Sometimes though I think I just need a stiff drink and to handle my own anxieties better too. You know that feeling (or maybe not but I hope someone does!). You see another dog coming, your heart starts to pump, you REALLY make the effort not to tighten the leash, but the butterflies start too. You suddenly get a rush of emotions like, hey, what is that other person going to think of us - stupid irrational thoughts but I'm a lot better now. I just put on my nice cheery voice and people sometimes say to me "Gosh you seem so confident" (little do they know I'm anxious inside). I always think of how far we have come though. She froze every 10 seconds on the road when I first had her, growling at any faint noise of a dog barking or at the sight of one. You wouldn't believe it was the same dog now. All through lots of positive encouragement. She used to live with about 18 dogs I think. She got on with all of them, but the bad experience of fighting with one has left its mark on her. Its such a shame, but I'm glad she is with me rather than anyone else.

I will never let her mix (knowingly) with other small terrier bitches. Its just not worth it. I know something will kick off. One of my wishes is to walk both my dogs together in peace!

Now... off to order myself some Rescue Remedy

Thanks again for your detailed reply Jacksdad... you are such an inspiration. I love to read your postings!!