abndogos wrote:Anna, I pretty much agree 100% with what you have said. I truly believe most people are not going to end up with a truly dominant alpha dog, and that most problems that occur with most pet dogs is not due to dominance issues, but to lack of proper training and fear issues, HOWEVER, for one to stick their head in the sand and say that dominance does not exist(or not allow talk of it) is also incorrect and misleading. Don;t you all think that instead of saying that all trainers that use ecollars and prongs are training wrong, that one should say that most pet owners should not use them without proper guidance, since the police dogs/KNPV/sport out there are trained with them????
There is behavior that actual animal behaviorists are trying to describe with the term dominance. Their definition is NOT the one you are using. The definition you are using is the misleading and incorrect one.
as for your E collar and prongs question. i have no problem saying they are wrong and that trainers who use them are wrong. There is no justifiable reason to use them. If you actually know how to train, then why the heck do you need such a tool? That some Police use these tools is hardly a glowing endorsement. I am very aware of the culture within law enforcement and you would be surprised how little the typical LEO knows about the tools they are given to do their job. Typically they know what their agency had decided will survive a law suite and nothing more. unless of course they have a personal interest in a particular area of their job that they "geek out" on in their personal time. this is NOT a knock on the individual officers, they have a HUGE amount of stuff to try and know. Unless the individual officer is really into dogs and dog training, they are just going to accept what they are told, get through the training, get back out on the street to try and do their job without getting killed.
as for your "dig" regarding "leader of the pack" and Patricia McConnell
I have posted a link to her current thinking, did you even bother to read it?
What you posted was most likely not written by her, but rather whoever created that page to sell the book. Also, being that the book was first published in 1996 and the link I provided has her current thinking...i would say her current thinking trumps what is in the book. Which I do have by the way, and right off in the bat in the first paragraph she sets the tone and clarifies a few things that go counter to your belief of how we should treat our dogs.
While there is no way I could say the "leader of the pack" booklet truly represents her current thinking or not because I am not her nor a personal friend so that I can call and ask.... I can say that because I have read many of her books, watch a few of her DVDs, and follow her blog, her current thinking does not appear to be 100% in sync with the book at this point. which is hardly surprising because she has 15 years of growth in her knowledge, study, experience since that book was written.
I can only speak for my self in closing. I am always looking to learn something new, something that shows a better way, something that explains the previously unexplained, or clarifies what was thought to be known, or corrects previously believed facts that turned out to be false. the more I learn, the more I agree with the "camp" that says your explanation and definition of dominance is incorrect. particularly in terms of dog/human interaction. by the same token, I am starting to wonder if even the typical dog owner even really needs to worry about the correct definition? it's cool info, but is really relevant to someone with say a single dog?
For me, dominance has been an interesting geek question nothing more. As for "experiencing it" according to the first trainer I turned to for help with my dog, my dog was a VERY dominant dog that need to be taken down a notch, shown who was the boss and that a prong collar was called for. I have done none of these things, I don't worry about "dominance" who is the "leader" etc. I instead learned what was really going on with my dog and how to help him. I now get random neighbors who I have never talked to before passing me say things like " he is doing sooo much better, keep up the good work".