Shock Collar

[Liz & Koa]

Wow, I am shocked (no pun intended), to hear someone say that shock collars don't hurt. My dog Koa has been a super handful. I had a trainer suggest using one, she even put it on my arm to show me how it didn't hurt. That was not the point, no matter how hard it is to work with him I would never use a shock collar. I felt bad enough using a prong, but I had to. When I used a Gentle Leader I was worried he would hurt his neck when he was having a crazy reaction. I just think the shock would do a lot of emotional dammage. I keep in touch with the people who have Koa's brother and they are using one. I cringe when I think of it.

I continue to try every humane method I can, but when Koa is in a state of lunging, barking, pulling, I just don't get what I am supposed to do. I am calm, I walk away, still he continues. Oh, well.

I am not new to this either, I had a GSD for 13 years, no issues, trained great.

No one said it would be easy, but we still haveto be humane about it.

Liz & Koa

[Noobs]

Liz, Murphy is also a handful, going nuts over cats to this day. I've been able to condition him to not pay attention to people using food and an easywalk harness. He can still get worried over certain people who look or dress a certain way (tough during the winter with big jackets and furry hoods), but he doesn't lunge at people anymore. Whew. He will still lunge at some dogs, probably ones that look at him for just a little too long, etc., and I'm usually good at being able to tell whether he'll react or not and can take him in another direction or between parked cars before he gets there, although I did miss a couple of times and had to pull him back from reaching a dog on a couple of occasions. Cats are still a huge challenge. If he sees one from a fair distance, say 30 feet, he will start to pull forward and huff and puff. I have to take him further and use whatever high-value treats I have to get his attention back. But if it's dark and he sees a cat under a bush or car before I do, all bets are off. He's a barking, lunging maniac and I have to drag him away until he's not lunging anymore, and it takes several seconds to get him focusing on me again. So I definitely feel your pain.

But I have to say again about the prong collar, I really wish there was another way for you besides that. You're worried about Koa's neck with the gentle leader, but the prong really hurts, too. Wouldn't he associate the pain of the prong to whatever his trigger is as well? I'm not judging you, I was desperate enough to use one as well at one time. Best of luck to you and I really hope that you're able to work on this issue with Koa.

[Liz & Koa]

Hi Noobs,

I hate using the prong, even though I NEVER jerk it, as I have been instructed to do. I pretty much stop, let him work it out and when he is calm again start to walk. Most of the time I will turn and go the other way, then back the way we were going. But if I have the Gentle Walker, Gentle Leader or a flat collar on him, he will go on and on.

Thanks for the input.

[Noobs]

Hi Liz,

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry I harped about it - I think I did that to you on the other board too. I'm glad you at least don't jerk it. I know someone who has a very sweet dog but is large and pulls - no reactivity issues - and this person started using a prong but doesn't jerk either for fear of hurting the dog. Seems to be working for the time being, but again different issue from yours altogether.

Best of luck!

[Liz & Koa]

Hey,

No problem. I understand. You didn't harp.

We are all here for thoughts and ideas, whatever they may be.

Happy New Year.

Liz

[jjphoenix]

the problem is, shock collars work. Of course they do, your putting your dog in pain! If you whipped a child, im sure it wouldnt make the same mistake agian, however how is that relationship then affected? And when you have someone who doesnt car about the welfare of their dog, how their dog feels emotionally, or how they are affecting their dogs mental, physical health, or how their affecting their relationship with their dog etc.

If you have someone that really, doesnt care about their dog on a personal level, a shock collar must seem like such a good idea! but then another question ... why does this person own a dog in the first place?

a dog came into rescue a little while ago, scared of everyone, with perminant burn scarring where the shock collar had been. Positive training does take longer, but the results are real and they last, and your dog will be happy. They look at us with such devotion, whay not treat your dog the same way?

with regards to prong collars etc, i dont know anything about them really, well not enough to form a proper opinion lol!

[Liz & Koa]

I agree. Why would someone have a dog that doesn't want to put in the time to help the dog. They depend on us.

Liz

[mselisabs]

My Brittany and I regularly run through a few neighborhoods - and one has a very sweet and handsome shepherd mix - when he wags his whole butt wiggles!! We often see him out in his unfenced yard with his mom and he always says such a nice hello to my dog with all the proper doggie language! I noticed he had a big collar on and asked her if she had an invisible fence - she said no, it was a shock. She proceeded to tell me how he would *never* stay in his yard, but when the shock collar went on he did - because when he got shocked he froze, not daring to move. He was clearly confused what was right or wrong - you want to tell me that that dog is trained? Hell no!!

[Mattie]

Hi Noobs,

I hate using the prong, even though I NEVER jerk it, as I have been instructed to do. I pretty much stop, let him work it out and when he is calm again start to walk. Most of the time I will turn and go the other way, then back the way we were going. But if I have the Gentle Walker, Gentle Leader or a flat collar on him, he will go on and on.

Thanks for the input.

I took the view that I couldn't condem something if I didn't know how they worked, to use a prong collar properly you should NEVER jerk it, you allow the dog to walk into it, just stand still and let the dog do the work, he will only put enough pressure on the collar as necessary.

Liz, why is your dog leaping about? What is he leaping about at etc?

[Liz & Koa]

Hi Mattie,

I have read that from you before, about how the prong is used, but have never heard a trainer who suggests using one say that. They say give the dog a good pop, so he doesn't forget it, and you should only have to do it once. Either way it's not pleasant for the pup.

I have come to the conclusion that Koa is very protective of his house and owner. My vet had suggested a fear aggresion, but when he is with other people alone, he is fine. So to answer your question, any one or dog that comes within 5' of me or his house. When we first adopted him he was fine, then after a month he started.

I have tried numerous things, but no good, and of couse the poor person jumps out of their skin because he looks fine, than RARARA.

[Mattie]

Unfortunately I lost were I found this information when my old computer decided that he had lived long enough and I haven't been able to find the article again or I would put it up.

I have come to the conclusion that Koa is very protective of his house and owner. My vet had suggested a fear aggresion, but when he is with other people alone, he is fine. So to answer your question, any one or dog that comes within 5' of me or his house. When we first adopted him he was fine, then after a month he started.

It could be fear aggression, it took me a while to realise that Gracie's aggression was fear, she seemed anything but, she started about 6 weeks after I got her and with hindsight, I think it started when a stupid owner refused to call her dog but thought it was ok for him to run up to mine. To Gracie I had failed to protect her as that was the day she first showed signs of the aggression.

[Liz & Koa]

Hi,

I would be much happier if he showed his fear by hiding behind me rather than lashing out.

[Noobs]

Hi,

I would be much happier if he showed his fear by hiding behind me rather than lashing out.

Murphy too - Oh IF ONLY!

[Mattie]

Hi,

I would be much happier if he showed his fear by hiding behind me rather than lashing out.

Teach him to go behind you.

I always put myself between Gracie and any other dog, get her to sit then "Watch me" but I had to do this BEFORE she was reacting, once she reacted all I could do is take her away from the situation completely.

[Liz & Koa]

I will try that.

Thanks