Two female dogs can't get along?

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Wicket
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Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by Wicket »

I've read lots of advice here against having two female dogs that are close in age and breed and am curious about the reasoning behind it: How come two female dogs can't get along? Thanks!
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Nettle
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by Nettle »

Super question, thanks for asking :D

Dogs see each other as rivals for resources - food, territory, you, anything. Dogs don't do sharing: they do MINE. So any other dog in the vicinity gets the first dog to thinking how much of life's goodies that dog is going to take. Sometimes dogs get to become friends, but mostly it's a bit of "is she going to get anything I won't get?" even between the calmest.

"The female of the species is far deadlier than the male" how true that is. The female is the mother of the future. Females have a lot more to lose if they "lose" resources - because they lose the ability to rear their young. Even if they are spayed and will never have pups, their inner hardwired programming is to rear the next generation. Females are snarkier (not just dogs).

The saying is "Dogs fight to breed: b itches fight to breathe" b itches need more space if they are to get on.

So, with two b itches, it makes sense to have them as far apart in possible rivalry terms as you can. So different ages, different sizes, different breeds/types, exercise them a lot, keep them happy and tired. then it can work - but it is a lot of work.

I have had as many as five together in the house, but mine have a job to do so are usually tired at home, and I am very quick at seeing tension building and de-fusing it by giving the tense one something to do.

Currently we have three whole b itches living in the house. Quite naturally, the two big ones (6 year old mother almost-2 year old daughter) have established space at opposite ends of the house (a small house) and the pup has moved out into the back porch where she has "her own apartment" :D a lovely den furnished with her own toys and plenty of bedding. This is a mellow type of dog, but it is still interesting how, given the option, they have chosen to live apart in order to live amicably. At night, the older dog goes upstairs and the young one comes indoors. I have not arranged this: they have.

The terrier is the one to watch but luckily she is a pretty mellow terrier. At ten inches high and probably twelve pounds, she is different enough for the others to not see her as a rival. But still, I have to be very watchful.

Male dogs are not so territory driven. They tend to be perfectly chilled until a female comes along, then they fall apart and make complete idiots of themselves. You see it with men in bars, too :lol:
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***Melissa***
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Super answer Nettle, thanx for answering :D

I'm now curious.
Striker = Dachshund, neutered (unfortunatelly - before I knew any better), male, will be 2 years old 26 November
Bibi = Jack Russel x Dachshund (IMO much more Jack Russel-ish than Dachshund-ish), intact female, will be 1 year 16 November

What are the odds (in general) of them ever fighting or not "getting along"? Especially when Bibi gets older?

I know things like health, diet, exercise, etc can influence this, so I'm only asking in general - would you foresee any issues between them?
Last edited by ***Melissa*** on Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ankoi
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by ankoi »

I'm also curious about that Melissa! Although I'm not going to take other dog in a veeery long time, it has crossed my mind that some day when I've solved Tami's issues, it'd be nice to have second dog :)

What's the safest pair? female and male or male and male?
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Mattie
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by Mattie »

Several times I have had 4 bitches, now have 3, all very different breeds and temperaments, I let them decide were they sleep etc, although most are on my bed but all have their own spots on there.

The only problems I have had has been between Bonnie and Ellie, if Bonnie gets over excited she would attack Ellie, Ellie being a Staffy would attack back. On the rare occasions this happened they were seperated and very gradually reintroduced although Bonnie always acted as if it hadn't happened.

With hindsight, every time Bonnie attacked Ellie she had something wrong with her breathing which showed up within 2 or 3 days afterwards including the last time Ellie had breathing problems.

I don't try and get them to live together on my terms, it is always on theirs, they know better than me what they can do or can't do and how well they get on with the others. They do have a lot of room to move round and Bonnie is often found at the top of the stairs when she wants peace and quiet.

Ideally a male and female are more likely to get on but not always, sometimes it can be 2 dogs or 2 bitches, Dixie and Tommy were best mates, they even died quite close together because Dixie needed Tommy, both were bitches, same age, different breeds and I got them 18 months apart.

If you are thinking of getting another dog, think carefully about the dog you have, his/her likes and dislikes, etc. Also take the time and trouble to teach them to live together, that doesn't mean letting them loose as soon as the new dog comes in, as owners we owe it to our dogs to make this as easy as possible for them when we introduce a new dog.
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Lauram
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by Lauram »

We have 10 bitches at the mo, 4 terriers and 6 lurchers. 95% of the time we have no problems. Only Tag is spayed.

Our dogs DO share! They don't even fight over bones. We get a box of bones from the butchers each week and simply dump them on the garden they seem to have an order at which they select bones the puppies generally go first and generally the smallest terrier takes the biggest bone and they just lounge around eating them in a gang.

Even when the bone supply is depleted they will still allow whoever has the bone to finish what they are doing before its taken. It is completely irrelevant who has it, it won't get taken. Some times if the bone for example is big, one will be at one end and another at the other. Lottie and Bramble, although they have seperate food bowls will both eat out of one and then both eat out of the other. Megan still brings her "puppies" (now over a year old) food and washes them.

I don't know whether or not they don't have any resources so have nothing to guard but they seem to share as much as any dogs can. They seem to happy to share food, living space and their beds.

Sometimes the b itches do squabble, Tag and Meg fell out for about a fortnight, but also somethimes the boys squabble too. I have never really experienced intense hate between too b itches but certainly mares are evil creatures if they take against someone.
Fundog
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by Fundog »

As you all know, I have two girls (both spayed). They get along exceptionally well, and appear to be very good friends. However, since I have already told soooo many Annie & Dottie stories, I won't bore you all by repeating myself. :lol: If you are new here and do not know the Annie & Dottie history, go to the "Articles" section where I have written "Helping the new dog get along with the first dog." Then you will be up to date. :wink:
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Wicket
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by Wicket »

Some of you have heard about my females chi-poo and Poodle. My Poodle has struggled with possessiveness; she had been this way since she was puppy, hoarding all of the toys under the coffee table and God forbid if our now decreased male terrier wanted a toy, she'd growl and lunge at him, baring her teeth. My parents, at the time, thought it was "cute" and liked her toys so much that she was "protecting" them.

When the chi-poo came around, my Poodle acted in the same way. If my chi-poo was playing with a toy, my Poodle would drop the one of her mouth and bully my chi-poo so she'd have both. It had gotten to the point where my chi-poo could never play with anything. Sometimes my chi-poo didn't want to give up her toy and these non-bloody fights would happen. Worried about my dogs' safety, I decided to train them, using their favorite games of fetch and tug mixed with sit/stays combined with management. It has taken about 6 months plus of training but the dogs are now getting along much better and their squabbles are few and far between. :D

Thanks Nettle and Mattie for answering my question!
emmabeth
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by emmabeth »

The occasions where bitches get along together, such as Lauram's bitches... do seem to be where the dogs have a ton of stuff to do, where valuable resources are plentiful (such as a big box of bones dumped on teh garden each week, as opposed to one bone each, once in a blue moon)... where dogs have their own space to go to if they want to.

Whilst it isnt good to generalise, many dog owners cannot offer that sort of thing, or havent thought to and so big problems can occura nd when they DO with bitches... they are more oftan than not, serious and irreversible.

My two bitches are 2 years apart in age, similar type of dog both being sighthounds, but Ellie is Saluki x Afghan and Kelda is a Deerhound, they like each other well enough and will play, but are sufficiently dissimilar in age and character that they are never competeing for the same resources.

Since both are fairly laid back chilled out girls,a nd both also prefer to make things clear with body language than to dive in for a fight, any issues have been extremely minor so far (very much 'handbags at dawn' sorts of 4 second swearing matches when one has inadvertantly stood on the other).

Had these two NOT been fairly laid back sighthound breeds (though, deerhounds, salukis and afghans can all be pretty fiery if really crossed!) but say... terriers, I would not have paired them together in the same home as there ar ea lot of similarities too.

In fact I think if we just ran our household differently there could easily be problems, if we insisted on free feeding or feeding in teh same room for example, or insisted that 'all dogs sleep in xyz' room rather than feeding specific meals, seperately so all dogs eat in peace, and allowing the dogs to choose where they sleep (Ellie sleeps at the top of the stairs or ont eh sofa downstairs, shes very concerned about preventing anyone leaving with out her seeing!, Kelda sleeps on our bed or on the dog bed beside us.. as shes never been bothered about such issues, and just lkes a comfy place to lie down!).
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thepennywhistle
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by thepennywhistle »

Wow. Dumb me, I never thought about such issues. I guess I've just
been blessed with kindly dogs that never squabble. I have 4 collie girls,
ages 6, 5, 4, and 3, and there is never a cross word between them. We
live in a small house, so having separate space is difficult, but they prefer
to sleep in piles, even if there was space to spread out. I do take care
to make sure that everyone gets the same thing (treat, chew toy, etc.)
at the same time, but that's it. I've never had so much as a curled lip
between the lot. Honestly, I think Rowan considers them all her puppies,
as each came in to the household very young and was instantly adopted by
her. Three of them (not Rowan the "mom") are seriously visually handicapped
and 2 partially deaf. I don't know if that has any bearing on the matter.
Touch wood, cross fingers, ect., but I sure hope they continue being a
happy family this way.
Carol F. King
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by Carol F. King »

What Nettle said is pretty true. I will add a big qualifier. It depends on "how Alpha" each b itch is. Two very strong Alpha b itches will fight to the death. If there is only one strong (as in hormones, temperament, not physical strength) and several other females with not strong Alpha drive, it would be fine.

I had one "strong Alpha". She attacked every dog she saw. It was a nightmare.

My other Alpha was Alpha only in our home with the boys. If I took her to a dog park she did not spar with other females, she actually got along with them.

I've read that if there is only one female in a litter and too close in the Uterus to the males, she can get too much male hormones and that produces the "strong Alpha" I was talking about. I do not know how true this is.

Carol F. King
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Mattie
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by Mattie »

I had 3 very strong minded bitches but they didn't try to out do each other, it is more to do with the temperament, what they want of life, some put food at the top, others toys etc. and how the home is managed. Most of my problems came with a ***** and a dog when the ***** first arrived in my home, good management solved this problem, it gave her time to work out that she had nothing to fear.

There wasn't an Alpha in my gang, it depended on how high a status my dogs put something, thankfully they all seemed to have different high status things so didn't have any reason to fight.
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wvvdiup1
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Re: Two female dogs can't get along?

Post by wvvdiup1 »

Being someone who has raised a lot of dogs, mostly bitches, and can only tell you a very short version of what I know. It's called Dog Management.

Sounds frighteningly broad but it's not. When you have more than one ***** in a household, you have to know which resource each will value the most. However, if most if not all of your dogs value the same thing, it is best to give that resource separately. Which dog do you give the resource first?

In short, I trained all my dogs similar to how you would train a dog that gets jealous when you pet another dog you or someone else owns, and that is having the jealous dog do something that will keep him or her distracted at a good distance away while you pet the other dog. And, if the jealous dog sees you pet the other dog and stays calm, you reward it. Similarly, you train your bitches or males, but you keep them in their "safe area," or area each dog claimed as their own.

This may sound strange to you, however, after doing this for months (usually three or four months or until the dogs get it right), I've had all my bitches come right up to me when I've had their food, treat, toy, or whatever, sitting beside one another, without even hearing a growl or seeing a fight!
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