Victoria/Cesar stand off!!

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Monkey
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Victoria/Cesar stand off!!

Post by Monkey »

I would love to see them go head to head to take an aggressive dog each and work with, with EVERYTHING recorded basically (just so neither can hide bs, which I know victoria wouldnt but that other thingie...)

and see how they explain the dogs behaviors, thought process, development, plans on how to continue to work with them, and how the dogs are half a year/year later or something like that..

This to really show what it is all about....

I know I can keep on dreaming, but it would be so nice to see this man stomped to the ground by victorias georgus boots. (and he always says women can't be dominant enough cause we are always the care givers GRRRRR and therefor we make bad rott owners... Mutter mutter mutter)

What do you guys say about that idea??
The problem is in the other end of the leash!
WendyM
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Post by WendyM »

I like it. But do we have to give Cesar a real dog? It seems a shame to put an actual dog through that kind of torment just for entertainment (no matter how educational.)

Can we give him a chia pet instead? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tzY7qQFij_M
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Mattie
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Re: Victoria/Cesar stand off!!

Post by Mattie »

Monkey wrote: I know I can keep on dreaming, but it would be so nice to see this man stomped to the ground by victorias georgus boots. (and he always says women can't be dominant enough cause we are always the care givers GRRRRR and therefor we make bad rott owners... Mutter mutter mutter)
Typical man, who does he think women control their children and husbands if we are not the leaders of our pack. :roll:
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Missymay
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Post by Missymay »

Actually, I would much rather see him cross over.

OK, now that ya'll are done laughing, hear me out.

I have seen him focus more on positive reinforcement lately. I do think it is possible to teach an old dog new tricks.

I don't think he is a bad man or a cruel man, but rather an ininformed man. I think there is hope for him.

Then he goes and says something like "This is nervous dominance" and I cringe.
Kim and Asher

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotionâ€
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Noobs
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Post by Noobs »

It's true, he has. He has used food a bit lately to help the dogs when they're uncomfortable with things like putting on a muzzle or going into a crate in order to associate them with pleasurable things (as he explains it). The first time he said "This is called 'positive reinforcement'" I had to laugh. He also rewards dogs with massages and play.

I do watch his program and take some good information from it but that's all I'll say on this board. :wink:
lablver2
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Post by lablver2 »

I would love to see a stand off. I have people who are sexist and that is what Cesar is. I also hate the use of dominance based training so i would definitley side with Victoria lol. I also would love to see a interview where both of them would sit down and express their own views. Hey why not make it a party and bring Ian Dunbar. He has already spoken out against the so called dog whisperer
Belgian: 6 year old English Chocolate Labrador Retriever.
"The more boys I meet, the more I love my dog"-Carrie Underwood
Monkey
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Post by Monkey »

Oh my lord Wendy that is hillarious you had me in stitches!!!!

I can agree on the cruelness, but its not about special tv, it is about to proove it ONCE and for all. Cause all Cesar fans are likely to watch it.

and yes I have seen him starting to change some too, I really hope he fully crosses over, then he would lift the dogtraining enourmusly forward instead cause he has charm THAT I do not deny. He is cute as a little button...

BUT, his training is horrible, and a lot of the times I just wanna strangle the man..
The problem is in the other end of the leash!
lablver2
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Post by lablver2 »

I think his logic and way of thinking needs work too. Let me tell you I am in my twenties I have done SERE (survival training) school, boot camp, lived on an amphibious carrier for a week, Sail Academy ( which I had to live on a military base), Leadership Academy, swords team, done helocopter simulator, Physical Training team, soccer player, Miramar Air shows, DC (damage control) training, fire fighting school, many community services,etc.

That was all in high school and being apart of NJROTC. I am caring but I know when it is time to be caring and when it is time to lead. I am a woman too so his way of thinking women can't be leaders is a bunch of bologna. I am sure if he had to do half the stuff I have done he would fail.
Belgian: 6 year old English Chocolate Labrador Retriever.
"The more boys I meet, the more I love my dog"-Carrie Underwood
Chloe&Atlas'smom
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Post by Chloe&Atlas'smom »

I have to say while I DO NOT agree with his methods, just the fact that he has gotten the public aware of dog training is a good thing, wish Victoria could've been here in the states first but shes here now and things are going to change for the better. I run a household with 2 boys 12 years apart in age, 2 dogs, 2 cats and my adorable hubby, I am the boss and I think I am a pretty good leader.
WendyM
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Post by WendyM »

Monkey wrote:Oh my lord Wendy that is hillarious you had me in stitches!!!!
Well, I try. :lol:

I get what you're saying, I just don't think the networks care enough about public service and would need some convincing to make it good television.

I would like to see Cesar explain how a chia pets unresponsiveness is due to it being dominant and see how he proposes to train it.

Don't even get me started on his sexist statements, his dog "psychology" skills are bad enough.

If its male sex appeal we need on our side, what about Travis from GAD? Can we send him to school to become a behaviorist and convince a network to air him taking off his shirt... I mean, uh, training dogs? :oops:
Maddie'sMom
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Post by Maddie'sMom »

You know what's weird - I had a dream last night about this! :lol:
I had a dream that there was a dog that Victoria worked with, well, its owners didn't follow through with the training so the aggression got worse. So they called CM to see if he could 'fix' the dog 'better'... it was such a bizarre dream!
He had an episode where he "fixed" the dog by doing some alpha rolls and the usual leash pops and "shhts!". Then Victoria had an episode where they owners admitted that it only worked when CM was there, and she was ranting about those methods.

What a weird dream! :P
Doggie Python
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Post by Doggie Python »

I doubt you'll see Cesar "crossover" and be embraced by the "positive light". He's too much of an independant thinker and there's no such thing as "positive only", anyway.

I've got to give him credit for his professional composure in the face of the oh-so less than positive behavior of his critics, while not being afraid to grow and add to his tool-box.

Nasty dog "training" politics aside, Cesar and Victoria are actually not that far apart in their philosophies.

The major difference is where Cesar sees dominance and social problems which must be addressed, Victoria sees "reactive dogs" consumed by fear, which must be counter conditioned.

I watch and enjoy both shows.
"Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" Dennis
Missymay
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Post by Missymay »

Actually, the dog training video he is promoting right now uses R+ based training, but I have only seen the preview so I can not judge all of it.

As to positive only, of course there is not and anyone who says there is has no idea what they are talking about.

As to VS and CM, their philosophies are so far apart that they may as well be on seperate planets.

I can promise you that CM would never be accepted into the APDT and VS was a featured speaker at their conference.

People who think they have similar training methods usually are not too well versed in dog behavior or learning theory.
Kim and Asher

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotionâ€
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Nettle
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Post by Nettle »

Without doubt, the hardest part is training the owners :wink: Some of those owners leave my jaw on the floor.
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lablver2
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Post by lablver2 »

Funny I had a dream where VS was working with Belgian and we started walking up the hill towards my home and we ran into my neighbor. My neighbor is like a clone of Cesar Millan. He does not like Victoria at all and believes positive reinforcement is for labs and fluffies. (what does he know) He has a English Bull Terrier.

Anyways my neighbor and Victoria got into a very heated argument and then Victoria grabbed the BT's leash let him off the choke collar and got him to behave almost instantly.

It was one of those dreams you think are real lol. I laughed when I got up though
Belgian: 6 year old English Chocolate Labrador Retriever.
"The more boys I meet, the more I love my dog"-Carrie Underwood
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