People irritate me.

[lablver2]

So the day started off with me walking Belgian just to find out our new neighbors brought their basset hound out ( who has neuticles by the way). We don't have many dogs that are low to the ground here so Belgian was excited to see such a small dog. He was whining and giving the happy barks and trying to pull to say hi ( he knows when he is being introduced and when to avoid all dogs altogether) So I used the body block method and everytime he whined, barked or tryed to pull I got in front of him and made him back up farther from the dog. After about 1 minute and 1/2 he caught on and was fine. I rewarded him with treats when he gave appropriate behavior with the basset hound. He did absloutley fine. The basset hound was a little dominant and had snapped at Belgian and Belgian just walked away. No hackles, no tail up or anything he just walked away. I was quite suprised. Well we introduced the dogs again and this time Belgian was laying down next to the basset hound and the dog sat next to him.

That was the highlight of my evening but this is what I got upset with......

The owner and I started talking about training and labs. She told me all CHOCOLATE labs are stubborn I said No this a myth and is not true. A color does not determined a dog's personality She said Well I have had many chocolate labs in the past and all of them had been stubborn I just dropped it there with well I have worked with many chocolate labs and none of them have been stubborn on the other hand the owners were.

Then I found out they also have a Springer with extreme fear issues. They wanted to take the dog to a ordinary dog training class. I reccomended a behaviorist because they specialize in helping figure out dog behaviors and will help you fix them. I also said to use positive reinforcement as from my experience sometimes the chokers,etc. are the cause of the problems. I told her about the days when I believed that the choker was the best tool ( Thank God those days are gone) and how I changed because I realized it was hurting my relationship with my dog. I even offered better tools such as my beloved Sporn halter. She started off saying I used the chokers wrong and taught me about all these different NEGATIVE tools to train a dog. I told her first of all I used the choker right and I got many people's advice on using it before I put it on the dog ( Regret it in the first place now though)then I said that I prefer to use positive reinforcement. She said she put the springer on positive reinforcement and got books on how to do it but it just doesn't work for the dog and a prong does. I said well there are many forms of positive reinforcement and you can use treats, toys, praise or whatever your dog loves to reward the dog for good behavior. She didn't listen and I didn't feel like letting a argument happen either.


I am so frustrated it's not even funny. I know they are doing positive reinforcement wrong but what can I do. Even though they made the statements about chocolate labs they are always saying how well behved Belgian is.

I decided to go home and because I was only two house down from mine and I live on a quieet cul-de-sac I took Belgian's frisbee unclipped his lead and threw the frisbee. After he got it We raced home and he knew he did a good job today and that was all I wanted from him and he did very very well.

[monib1969]

i too am from the old school of yank and crank until i had my eyes opened about 10 years or so ago. It didn't take long to convince me, but a GOOD trainer knows when to admit they are wrong or doing something and learn and move on. It never hurts to try new things even if you object to them at first. If we all stood still and never changed we'd be a horrible world today.

Anyway, you have said your piece with this person, and it's a shame that she truly does not want to try something new, especially when it seems from her saying that all her labs were stubborn, that her methods didn't work in the past. True some can be a little hard headed, Rotties are hard headed sometimes too, but with proper motivation and patience they all come around.

Anyhoo, i feel your anger and pain, there are still so many bad trainers out there, and bad trainers that still believe they will have a better dog by forcing them into submission. They will not. I just feel sorry for her dogs, may they have mercy on her.

[Yoshi]

This is why I've decided that dog training is not for me, unfortunately. No one around here wants to listen to me; I offer great advice on how to build a trusting relationship with their dogs, and in response they yank the leash. I just said this on the G2G boards: humans can be so negative sometimes!

I agree with Monib's last sentence. It's not going to be fun once those poor dogs reach their threshold and snap...

Also, good for you for knowing you and Belgian did a good job, despite opposition and breed prejudice (is that a fair term to use here?)

[Mattie]

Animals are so much nicer than many people, they can teach us how to live with each other in harmony, pity many people can't.

Be proud of Belgian, he is your biggest asset in showing a better way to train dogs because he is so well behaved. Things are changing and more are turning to positive methods to train their dogs, I wish it would change quicker round here.

From my experience when out with mine, people ask how I got my dogs so well behaved and I tell them, they can be racing round like loonatics but one word and they are obeying me.

Maybe one day your neighbour will decide to try other methods because Belgian is so good, we can't force our ideas onto others, but our dogs can and do show others that positive methods does work.

Well done Belgian and lablver.

[Nettle]

Yes indeed, well done both of you, you lead by example.

Unfortunately people don't always want to hear what they should be hearing and none of us can change that.

[lablver2]

Wow I hope I do not get in trouble for bumping this back up. When I made it it did not work so I gave up and never searched for it.

Well their dogs are now constantly barking and howling in the garage and Belgian just looks at me. I am proud of my boy and I realize you know he is going to make his mistakes ( like today when he decided we were going to ignore everything and pull like he was a puppy again. He hasn't pulled in a very long time. I just turned him around and put him inside and went for a run). He is a dog. He isn't going to be perfect. I don't want him too because in my eyes he is perfect. He is well behaved in public and he loves people and other dogs.

Since then Belgian is now paying with puppies. Scottie puppies actually and he is in puppy heaven letting them jump all over him while he takes a nap. Something good obviousley came out of the whole ordeal.
I am proud of what my boy did that day and will never forget it. We are now building on it.

The lady....well I hear her dogs barking out of boredom and I haven't seen her. It is funny though her husband is frequently coming over with their 2 year old daughter who is in love with Belgian. The husband and the daughter both love Belgian and both come over to play fetch with him. I even have Belgian obeying hand commands from me while the girl is throwing the frisbee for him. The lady may not agree with how I train my dog but her husband does so who knows this may be a building block for them.

I know I can't throw my views on someone however I won't let my breed get bashed either by someone who doesn't even own labradors any more. I hate breedism.

Thank you all. I can't wait for another breakthrough with him. Our next challenge will be trying to get him to stop with his panic attacks at the vet.

[Mattie]

TTouch will help with panic attacks, I use it on my dogs when they go to the vets. Merlin was terrible after his operation on his spine, everyone laughed at him because he was shaking so much and trying to escape. Now he just stands there and waits for an admirer to come and stroke him, someone usually does.

pm me your email address and I will send you some information on how to do TTouch.

[lablver2]

Thanks Mattie I will p-mail you in a little bit. I got to do some work today and have to get off lol.

I sit with Belgian and keep him close to me and just stroke him until the vet calls him in. He seems fine ( sometimes) when he is close to me. The problem is that I am not allowed in the backroom and that is where all the problems start. Belgian has already escaped from the backroom before and if I didn't catch him he would of been long gone. When he was a puppy he actually once got off his collar and started darting into traffic before I got him and brought him inside the room. He doesn't do that anymore but we have noticed when at the vets and if there are alot oof dogs in there before him he becomes dog aggresive. This is rare for him because he loves dogs. I am guessing the other dogs create a stress for him. It is mainly dogs bigger then him that he becomes really nervous around. In the backroom I have heard they have muzzled him in the past, had to have a couple guys lay on him because he wouldn't settle down, has to has anasthsia because he was so afraid, he pooped on the vet's thermoneter, he has peed in the backroom out of fear.

It is the back room that causes all the problems. I love our vet I truley do because he is so nice and always approaches Belgian very calmly and relaxed and pets him and gives him treats.

Belgian had to have an emergency surgery as a puppy and the fact that the very first time that he was left alone was when he was giving anathesia, I left, he wakes up with bandages on his legs, in a kennel, in a dark room with other barking dogs.

It has terrified him. We are working on it and he has been getting better. The dog aggresion at vets isn't so much anymore. He has mellowed down alot since he was a puppy. If I see him starting to get nervous and anxious around other dogs I just remove him out of the waiting room and tell the staff that I am outside.