Anyone heard from Noobs???

[Nettle]

No judgements from here either. You have dealt with a terrible situation in the best way you could. There is no reason for you to feel guilty. I'm sorry we can't help with your pain. )))))))))))))HUGS((((((((((((( Come and talk whenever you want.

[jacksdad]

Noobs, good to hear from you. I am glad to hear your son is doing well.

I am so sorry things didn't work out in regards to Murphy. I think I got to know you well enough from your posts to know you didn't reach your decision lightly, easily or casually. And in my opinion this does NOT harm your credibility for giving dog training advise one bit. I don't know if it would help, but maybe go back and re-read Patricia McConnell's blogs regarding her journey with Hope and how stress between the dogs was causing problems that just couldn't be fixed. It might just help you with any second guessing you maybe feeling/having. Following her journey really made an impact on me and brought home the need for the dogs quality of life to trump "forever home" ideals. And from your posts I feel confident that was your concern and only your concern.

I can't imagine what it took for you to share this, but I thank you.

Now, go have some cyber wine, but not too much...you have a son to play with

[thepennywhistle]

Noobs, I send you (((((hugs))))) and much sympathy. One of the platitudes about life that I repeat to myself frequently is that the only constant in life is change. Life changed. It's no one's fault. You have a huge, loving heart and much knowledge and the strength to pursue what is best for all. You made the best decision you could, and not swiftly or lightly. I cannot see how anyone could criticize you for anything. I just wish it wasn't so painful. Murphy (knowing you as we do through your posts) is in a good place. You've a new baby, so enjoy every moment of this new phase of nurturing and training, if you will. And one day, you'll get to share all of this knowledge with you child and another dog. You're too loving an owner, and you know the dogs aren't going to let you sit idle forever

And for what it's worth, I agree with Sarah about the neighbors and the puppy. You may need to let them run into the wall by themselves, and just hide your eyes if they aren't going to value your advice.

[chay]

oh gosh, what a heartbreak for you noobs *HUGS*

echo the sentiment to step back from the neighbors with the puppy - perhaps give (or lend if you already have them?) them a copy of one of victoria's or patricia mcconnells books? i know you can't make them read it, but perhaps if they have it there they might pick up a few things and at least you know they have info right in front of them rather than you feeling pressured to share it yourself. going on a forum or researching things for themselves might be "too hard", but if the book is just sitting there they don't have to do anything.

big warm fuzzy wishes from the land down under <3

[emmabeth]

Oh honey, I had a feeling this is what had occurred and thought it best to leave you to it.

For what its worth, and I realise words are NOT enough and never will be - you did absolutely the right thing.

It is SO easy for those NOT in the position you were in to say 'well I would never give up my dog no matter what', but life is just not like that, and it seems very clear that Murphy was not happy.

As you so rightly say, you cannot explain to a dog 'this is just for now', they really do only have NOW, they have no concept of next week or month or year.

In time I think you will be able to see that you DID make the right decision, and be able to look on the things Murphy taught you, not just about dogs, but about yourself and people in general.

The other thing I think it is important you take from this is, all the work you did with Murphy will help him wherever he is now, he is a better dog for having shared part of your life with you.

As the others have said, I think I know you well enough to know this decision was thought out, that you tried everything reasonable and practical that you could and in the end you listened to your dogs 'opinion' and put his needs above your own.

You will ALWAYS be welcome here, with or without a dog, your experiences with Murphy are valuable and if you wish to offer your opinion it will be greatly appreciated. Equally if you just want to lurk, or drop in and out, thats fine too!

Lots of cyber cake, chocs and wine from here (((((((((((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))))))

[wvvdiup1]

Noobs, good to hear from you and glad to hear your son is doing well. As for what the others have said, I can't add anything else that could be said any better. We understand. We've been there ourselves. You did the right thing by putting Murphy into a new home, and whether you realize this or not, you didn't just put Murphy's feelings or health first, but you possibly didn't realize that you thought of your son's safety too, as when he gets a little older and starts crawling then later walking, you wouldn't want your son get hurt.

)))HUGS((( to you, Noobs.

[Fundog]

Thank you for coming on and updating us, Noobs. We've all been worried sick about you. And I am soooo sorry for your loss. My heart breaks for you. I'm sending a humongous box of cyber chocolates. (: managing a weak smile through my tears for you: )

[bendog]

Noobs, I'm new here but lurked and read a lot before I joined.

Just wanted to say that I totally understand your decision.
My family had to give up a dog once when I was quite young and it was heart breaking, but absolutely the best thing for the dog.
In my case our dog wasn't aggressive, merely terrified, and with my parents going through a divorce, and a toddler in the house it was too much for him.
He was an adult dog but would actually urinate and poo himself when my Dad shouted (which was often).
It wasn't fair on the dog to live like that,

You did absolutely the right thing for Murphy. And I;m sure he's happier.

I also understand your frustration with the neighbours pup. My boyfriends family have a new pup and are doing everything wrong and won't listen to any advice.
Its hard to watch that happen, but understand that it is their responsibility not yours.

Take care, and congrats on the baby.

[Noobs]

Thank you all for your kind words. I really do appreciate it.

bendog, Murphy wasn't aggressive either (most dogs aren't); he was also fearful as yours was. He just showed it in a much scarier way. I just wanted to clarify that.

I appreciate the advice to step away from my friends with the new puppy. But this couple is one of our absolute closest friends and they live a block away from us. We are so close that we have a standing brunch date with them and another couple every weekend and make almost all our social plans with them. So stepping away from them isn't going to happen. But I will lend them McConnell's "The Other End of the Leash" and hope they read it. The best I can do is offer my help when they ask and then just try not to meddle if I observe something "wrong" and I'm not asked for my opinion (unless the dog is getting hurt or frightened). I very well can't "step away" from my very good friends if they have a new baby and they aren't doing the same things we did with ours. Anyway it was probably my fault for not being specific on how close we are to them.

I think part of my problem right now with regard to my friends' puppy - and in a way my desire (or lack thereof) to bring a new dog into my home - is that because Murphy was my first dog as an adult and to boot I ended up dealing with a fearful dog, I completely immersed myself into the world of dog training, positive training, fearful dog rehabbing, whatever you like. As a result I see every dog as a potentially fearful dog. I am terrified of anyone doing the wrong thing or else the dog will be "ruined." I have a child now, I can't neglect him the way I neglected my partner when I dove head-first into Murphy's training. So as I said, it will take years before I can bring home another dog, when River will no longer be absolutely helpless. But that's just semantics compared to how I'm feeling mentally about training and raising a dog. Does that make sense?

Many of you probably see yourselves in what I've described. How many of you spend more time with your dog(s) than with your spouse? Worry about what the animals are eating more than what the humans are eating? Worry about how much time you're spending exercising your dogs instead of the time you're spending nurturing your relationship with your family? This is what I'm struggling with now.

There are many dogs who aren't "trained" but have great temperaments. I have friends whose Springer Spaniel is obviously understimulated and tries to herd their cats, but she is friendly and sweet, even though her owners are "pack leader" types who say "no" more often than "yes." My brother-in-law's staffie doesn't even know how to sit but is so sweet to people his tail is practically a deadly weapon he wags it so hard. My aunt has three small children (ages 7 to 12) and a boxer who is never walked because they have a huge yard (I know) but he also has a great temperament and I see them pull things out of his mouth all the time and the dad is another pack leader type, etc, etc. Yes, I realize that these situations aren't perfect, but the point is there are plenty of "normal" dogs in my life so now I'm trying to accept that if I ever bring a dog into my home again that hopefully I'll get lucky and get a normal dog that I don't need to be on high alert with all the time. I love Murphy but God help me I feel like a huge weight has been lifted because I don't have to jump every time our doorbell rings or worry that there might be a cat at the bottom of our front steps when I go outside. This feeling of relief is another huge source of guilt for me.

So yes, I am stepping away from the dog world and easing my way back into my life. Thanks again for all your kind words. And thanks to your encouragement I will be back to obnoxiously dispense advice and opinions. I'll probably be back to ask questions on behalf of my friends. And don't bother suggesting that they join here, because they aren't the type to do message boards.

For those who remember my other friend whose mother's dog had a litter of four puppies viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12711 , FYI one of them passed because of an infection so now there are three left. I haven't spoken to my friend further since our last discussion when I tried to convince her not to keep littermates. But I did find out about one of the pups passing through Facebook.

Thanks again, my friends. I shed so many tears in the last few months and again when I wrote the post, and yet again (happier ones) when I read your replies. I will see you soon.

[ladybug1802]

Oh Noobs I am so sorry....I too was in tears reading your post. it is very clear that you didnt enter this decision lightly and it has been one hell of a tough decision for you....we all respect you for that. x

[emmabeth]

I know you cant just stop feeling guilty for alllll the things you are feeling, but for what its worth I think you have nothing to feel guilty about.

I have to agree that potentially the only downside to positive training for me has been the ability to read other peoples dogs and realise just HOW MANY dogs out there are tolerating rather than enjoying, are fearful and no one has noticed, and are plain NOT being listened to by the people who profess to love them so dearly.

Some days it gets to me and i ALMOST wish I could wind the clock back and remain ignorant to it all... but then obviously you can't and I wouldnt want that really!

As far as the 'other peoples dogs' things goes... what I tend to do these days is foster my own relationship with peoples dogs (those friends I see regularly) so their dog knows I am listening, even if no one else is.

By doing this I have a few times had people say 'well why does Poochy do that for you....' or similar things and then I will explain, but otherwise, I just bite my tongue wherever possible.

I also completely understand why you would be wary of another dog requiring the same amount of work as Murphy did - but you know now, what you know now.. the chances of that happening AND it being as hard as it was with him are unlikely because of this. The relief .. well that is normal, you would need to be about as sensitive as a rock to NOT notice the difference with him no longer there, and feel SOMETHING relating to the removal of pressure.

I know when the Orange Dog died - I was in bits, and I think i have said it here before, i cried more for her and mourned her more, her passing affected me WAY more than the death of my own Mother in so many ways.....

But BOY was it nice NOT to come down to a puddle of urine every morning.

That doesnt for a second mean that if i could wind back time and have those months over again, including the lakes of weewee in the living room, that I'd say no... but not having to deal with that every day IS a relief.

Anyway, enough waffle from me - do stick around (or take a break and return when you like) and get involved here as much as you like, we have missed you!

[jacksdad]

Noobs, only thing I can add...or actually just echo is more like it. What your feeling/thinking/going through..natural, normal let it happen. just don't let the self doubt get the better of you. Sounds like you have a lot of dogs in your life, let them be your dog fix for now.